Anne Sacoolas reckons her offence would be a mere civil matter in the USA

[lljkk]

She's wrong. State of Virginia has vehicular involunary manslaughter that includes prison sentence up to 10 years. Simple reckless behaviour in charge of a vehicle can qualify.

Can't believe no thread about this already. I feel incensed at the statements from Sacoolas' lawyer!

@SylviaHortensis

Anne Sacoolas' government ordered her to leave. I can imagine you don't argue with them. Her President summoned her to the White House to meet the Dunn family. She complied but the Dunns - who felt ambushed by Trump arranging this - refused to meet her.

I don't see what is to be gained from hounding this woman who caused an accident. What is disgraceful is that the emergency services took 40-60 minutes to get to poor Harry. Why?

She wouldn't be "hounded" (and she isn't being - she has her everyday life) if she was prepared to face a proper trial in the place where it happened. The Emergency Services response is a separate issue.

You DO NOT drive on the right on US bases in the UK! I am so fed up with people claiming this, they follow UK driving rules, the same as everywhere else. Please stop putting out this false information as an excuse for Sacoolas.

@PopUpName I compared her to Roman Polanski. I think it was very clear in my post that I was drawing a comparison between the two both insisting that the justice system of the country where they committed the alleged crimes is not good enough for them, and that they must therefore flee on their own terms, and that this is basically punishment enough.

I did not compare the crimes.

(However, Polanski and his defenders basically think he did nothing wrong, and they would not agree with your description of his actions.)

As for anti-Americanism, she's the one fully leaning into the stereotype - the sense.of entitlement, the attitude that the British justice system is the corrupt instrument of some banana republic, the idea that what really counts is the law back home.

That's pretty irrelevant as it happened in the UK, but yes, there are some areas of the US that don't take reckless driving seriously that even as a criminal offense, it might as well not be.

Being from a state with a similar view to reckless driving as Virginia, yeah, it's possible she would have got away with just a fine and points on her license even though on the books just the reckless driving is a class 1 misdemeanor, with a very general definition of "any person who drives a vehicle on any highway recklessly or at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving." before getting into the rest of it.

I mean, there are parts of the US where DUIs can be brought down to reckless driving with just a fine just for pleading guilty or no contest, the "wet reckless" -- even if a child is involved (apparently child endangerment is okay as long as you don't say you didn't do it and a car is involved). It's fucked up, but US laws and how it is so easily bent to keep dangerous drivers happy is irrelevant to this situation.

She absolutely should come back and face the music imo. Whatever the law is where she comes from is completely irrelevant.

I've driven virtually the length and breadth of France, in Belgium, Holland, Germany and Greece, in both LHD and RHD cars, and managed to do it all without ever driving on the wrong side of the road.

I did once drive through a tunnel that was closed to traffic though, because none of us knew what "interdit" meant.

This case gives me the absolute rage. Pathetic, despicable woman.

It matters not one whit the US sentencing laws on death by dangerous driving in any state, who cares?! The offence was committed on UK soil and the revolting woman needs to be brought back to face British justice. She’s skipped the country and doesn’t even have diplomatic immunity - if Biden has any sense he will agree to extradite her. To suggest community service and a donation in Harry’s memory is just so insulting to the family.

@LakieLady

Churchill Insurance did a study and found that around 200 000 British drivers drive on the wrong side of the road every year in Spain (well, not this year! Or last year). The FCO found that about a third of British drivers drove on the wrong side of the road abroad at some point. Thankfully, most don't result in someone's death, but some do.

It's a very common error.

As to fleeing justice, yeah, obviously that is indefensible. I am not defending that in the slightest.

@DynamoKev I don't think AS had anything to do with drawing up the unequal extradition agreements. The anti-Americanism goes deeper than that.

Just heard this on the news!! What planet is she on? And HOW disrespectful to his family x x

PopUpName please don’t resort to incredibly immature name calling when someone disagrees with you. It is reckless driving when she already has a prior conviction for driving without due care or attention. Chooses to get behind the wheel in a foreign country without clearly having done enough practice / perhaps even a refresher course to ensure she fully understood UK road regulations and wouldn’t repeat a previous error with her driving without the right attention or care. She didn’t do this. A 19 year old had lost his life because of her. She’s run away and then only communicates to say she’d be “willing to do community service” which strongly indicates how arrogant, selfish and deluded she is to not realise how insulting this is.

I saw this and was incensed by it. Community service??? Is her spokesperson an expert on UK law? No? 🙄

Bloody coward. She admitted responsibility so she needs to be tried before a judge.

This woman is scum. Anyone who can do what she did then run away from the consequences of her actions is a piece of shit imo. Poor Harry Dunn's family, they are unlikely to ever get closure thanks to her.

PopUpName it’s very different to realising in a split second you may have accidentally driven on the wrong side of the road and quickly correcting yourself as I’m certain the majority of Brits in this rather dubious survey would’ve done- to her driving for a continued stretch on the wrong side of the road, not observing oncoming traffic and then actually colliding with someone. Resulting in his death.
Also- it’s very different going on holiday and using a rental car for say a week- for short stretches of time to moving to, and living in a foreign country and not giving yourself the adequate amount of time and practice to fully get used to the country’s roads. Especially when you’ve had a previous incident of a charge of driving without due care against you!!

There's a civil case pending in the US isn't there? So that at least would be compensatory. Not going to bring Harry back of course but nothing will.

I haven't googled but there have been cases in Scotland of visiting tourists causing injury (possibly death) by driving the wrong way. I'm going to search what the outcome was in these cases.

@osprey24

You DO NOT drive on the right on US bases in the UK! I am so fed up with people claiming this, they follow UK driving rules, the same as everywhere else. Please stop putting out this false information as an excuse for Sacoolas.

Quite right. You definitely, categorically, do NOT drive on the right at RAF Croughton. It's all driving on the left. The base isn't run under American law/rules, they're visiting forces. There are also massive signs as you exit the base reminding you of the correct side of the road to drive on. They're huge you can't miss them.

I also know, personally, that you don't drive on the right at RAF Lakenheath or Mildenhall.

There are lots and lots of British MOD staff walking on each of those bases as well as the US forces people.

Here's a recent case. Edinburgh, a tourist rather than resident.

link

Caroline Emmet. She was allowed to carry out community work in her home country.

Working on those bases either, not walking! Although I suppose some do walk! Hopefully on the right side of the pavement.

Also- it’s very different going on holiday and using a rental car for say a week- for short stretches of time to moving to, and living in a foreign country and not giving yourself the adequate amount of time and practice to fully get used to the country’s roads.
Not if you hit someone, it isn't. AS could have driven perfectly in the UK for every day she was here - until she didn't.

The study isn't dubious - insurers have this sort of info. It's just really not unusual.

A prior traffic infraction would stop no one from driving a car abroad years later, unless it's a DUI or the like. If it was in the USA, she likely attended traffic school for it. (Though obviously I have no idea.)

I think it is absolutely fair to criticise her decision to flee the UK.

But the accident itself is not something I would throw stones over. It could happen to anyone, and indeed the mistake that caused Harry's death happens to scores of Brits, every year.

There's an interview with the lawyer on Radio 4 today.

I don’t think many of you would actually voluntarily leave your children and go back to a foreign country where you may be imprisoned.

Especially not when your country and lawyers are telling you you don’t have to.

@RunHobbitRun

She's a despicable person. I genuinely don't know how she can sleep at night or look herself in the mirror knowing that she killed a young man because she wasn't paying attention.

Agree completely. Cowardly and totally lacking in any morals.

@LizzieMacQueen the law and sentencing rules are different in Scotland, it is a different legal system there. The collision caused by AS was in England. It would be subject to English sentencing guidelines.

@RunningFromInsanity what she wants really doesn’t come into it. Of course it’s sad that she won’t see her children if she’s imprisoned, but we’re not talking about a minor misdemeanour here. She killed a teenager. Accident or not she is the only one responsible.

Harry Dunn’s mum will never see her son ever again.

What is the maximum sentence she could have got in this country for this crime? Presumably it could have been a prison sentence?

I wonder what the game is here? Is their a civil case against her either here or in the US? Does she want to leave the US and go somewhere where she could be arrested and extradited to the UK? Otherwise why not keep quiet?

As others have said it is irrelevant what would have happened in the US. It happened here and our laws apply.