Anne Sacoolas reckons her offence would be a mere civil matter in the USA

[lljkk]

She's wrong. State of Virginia has vehicular involunary manslaughter that includes prison sentence up to 10 years. Simple reckless behaviour in charge of a vehicle can qualify.

Can't believe no thread about this already. I feel incensed at the statements from Sacoolas' lawyer!

By her lawyer’s logic, I could find an offence in a US State, that isn’t an offence in England, go over to that State and commit the act, and then say “but it’s not against the law in England, I’ll just give the victim some money and it’ll all be done with”. How can anyone think that an act you carried out that caused the death of another isn’t a crime? It is in most jurisdictions. Her avoidance of facing up to the consequences of her actions is horrific.

I’m so torn on this.

Absolutely support Harry’s parents in fighting for justice for their son. I’m sure most would do the same.

But in Anne’s shoes, I sincerely doubt many of us would willingly return to a country to face charges, even if it was the right thing to do. It won’t bring him back, and it will likely leave her children without a mother. As much as i would like to say I’d do it, I probably wouldn’t choose to. I’d be unable to not think of the impact on my own children and think well, it won’t bring him back but it will deprive my kids of a parent.

Having said that I do think the US government should extradite her to face charges. I believe she should face charges. And that’s it’s simple ridiculous she hasn’t been made to. I just don’t blame her for not willingly choosing to go and do that without being forced to. I think 99% of people would act the same in her shoes.

She's a right piece of work. She will agree to community service? Oh really, how big of her! You don't get to pick and choose your sentence, who does she think she is? A man is dead because of her. I hope this haunts her every day for the rest of her life. Not necessarily what she did, if it was an accident, but the fact that she fucking ran away and caused worlds of pain to his family.

@RoseLimeade

I’m so torn on this.

Absolutely support Harry’s parents in fighting for justice for their son. I’m sure most would do the same.

But in Anne’s shoes, I sincerely doubt many of us would willingly return to a country to face charges, even if it was the right thing to do. It won’t bring him back, and it will likely leave her children without a mother. As much as i would like to say I’d do it, I probably wouldn’t choose to. I’d be unable to not think of the impact on my own children and think well, it won’t bring him back but it will deprive my kids of a parent.

Having said that I do think the US government should extradite her to face charges. I believe she should face charges. And that’s it’s simple ridiculous she hasn’t been made to. I just don’t blame her for not willingly choosing to go and do that without being forced to. I think 99% of people would act the same in her shoes.

This is a fair point - I wish I could believe I'd be the better person, but not sure I could be. I hope I wouldn't act in such a cowardly way. A long custodial sentence is unlikely and her human rights would be much better protected in the UK than if she served time in the US. So she could do her time (if any) with minimal disruption to her kids.

@RoseLimeade I think that's a false choice. There was no reason to think she'd get a lengthy custodial sentence.

I'd rather give my children the example of a mother who is prepared to stand up and do the right thing and take responsibility.

Not the example of a mother who is physically present but a fugitive from the law, and aggravating the grief of a bereaved family.

As a mother herself I just truly don’t know how she can live with herself. Yes accidents happen but her actions following this - not taking any responsibility whatsoever to me shows she’s completely delusional and so arrogant that she’s not eaten up with guilt and does the right thing in facing up to her actions. Absolutely despicable.

I know that makes sense rationally, but I think as a parent I’d really struggle to willingly take that risk if the option was there to just stay put. Not wanting to be apart from them for the trial and deal with the real risk of a custodial sentence. The longer this goes on the more she must perceive the outcome of the trial may be prejudiced too.

I definitely see the point re wanting to be a good example for your children. I’d love to think that’s what I’d do too. But realistically there’s no way of knowing until you’re actually in that situation. It’s human nature to be scared and want to avoid prosecution and prison, I don’t have any complaint about people feeling anger and vitriol towards her and don’t see her in a positive light myself, but I also don’t feel outraged or surprised she isn’t choosing to come back here and face the music.

Doesn't surprise me.
On US bases everything is run like little America regardless of the country is in.
We were asked to do a craft fair years ago on a US base but declined when they insisted we had to take dollars if offered and use the exchange rate they supplied.
Obviously on base all driving was on the right.
Therefore it would be very difficult to mentally switch to the left when leaving the base.

@lljkk

She's wrong. State of Virginia has vehicular involunary manslaughter that includes prison sentence up to 10 years. Simple reckless behaviour in charge of a vehicle can qualify.

Can't believe no thread about this already. I feel incensed at the statements from Sacoolas' lawyer!

Your link doesn’t support your claim that “simple reckless behaviour in charge of a vehicle can qualify”

It states:
In Virginia Vehicular Manslaughter or Vehicular Homicide arises when one person causes the death of another while driving under the influence of drug or alcohol in violation of Virginia’s DUI laws.

To be convicted of vehicular manslaughter in Virginia, the prosecutor will need to show proof that the driver charged with vehicular manslaughter was intoxicated and that that intoxication was the legal cause of the death.

It then lists types (a) through (f) of vehicular manslaughter. For all, the above must apply. For (c) Involuntary manslaughter

“c. 18.2-36 – Involuntary Manslaughter.
Most vehicular related charges of involuntary manslaughter involve actions alleged under 18.2-36 (3) (b)*. That would be accidently killing another during the improper performance of a lawful act. An example of Cheung vs. Com. In that case the Court of Appeals found that deliberate failure of a driver to disregard signs of drowsiness is evidence of a reckless disregard for human life.”

In this case, they determined that lack of sleep was a type of driving while under influence or intoxicated. They have determined that for over the counter and prescription drugs as well.

But Anne Scoolas was not under the influence of any substance or intoxicated. The Virginia law doesn’t apply to her situation and her lawyer is correct as far as I can see. I have a friend who was knocked off her bike into a ditch in Florida where she died. The driver did not even get a ticket. The US laws do not cover accidental vehicular manslaughter.

From what I remember of the case. Anne Scoolas was told to return immediately to the US by the US Embassy. She wasn’t given a choice to stay and face charges or go. She was only in U.K. legally per US Dept of State US Visiting Forces treaty so if they cancel her U.K. Visa, like they did, she’s then here illegally. So she was given no choice but to return.

She's right. Reckless driving involves taking a decision to drive in a risky manner (ie, being sleepy or taking drugs that impair judgement or reactions). She did not take a decision to be on the wrong side of the road.

Don't really see the relevance of what her home state law is to crimes committed in the UK

I think by not facing up to this she is cruelly extending the heartache for Harry’s family - this is evident - but also she isn’t doing her own future forgiveness any favours. Most people would be in hell having caused this.

PopUpName completely disagree. She made the decision to get in a car and drive despite only having been in a country driving in the other side of the road less than a month. Despite a previous driving infraction in the US state of Virginia in 2006 for "failing to pay full time and attention". She has a history of EXACTLY this. She should never have been behind the wheel.

She would say that wouldn't she
despicable woman

She made the decision to get in a car and drive despite only having been in a country driving in the other side of the road less than a month. Prior to lockdown, thousands of British drivers did this everyday, renting cars abroad, on the road within hours of arrival. And these drivers commonly cause accidents for driving on the wrong side or pulling the wrong way in an emergency move. It's not even vaguely unusual. Have a look at the insurance claims for Brits renting cars abroad, and at the number of these incidents reported via UK embassies abroad.

And not even in the UK does having a prior driving offence ban you from driving for life. Don't be silly.

@Rainbowshine

Her avoidance of facing up to the consequences of her actions is horrific.

^This. As if being responsible for someone's death isn't bad enough, she's putting his family through long, drawn out hell in their right to have justice.

I've always assumed that Harry Dunn's mum is grieving. As any of us would be in her shoes.

The other baying for the blood of the American witch who knowingly murdered boy and then fled justice - I've always assumed that's anti-Americanism.

Someone upthread compared her to Roman Polanski, who intentionally and knowingly raped a child.

Whatever we may think of her leaving the UK, it's ridiculous to suggest that she intended to put anyone in danger.

Anne Sacoolas' government ordered her to leave. I can imagine you don't argue with them. Her President summoned her to the White House to meet the Dunn family. She complied but the Dunns - who felt ambushed by Trump arranging this - refused to meet her.

I don't see what is to be gained from hounding this woman who caused an accident. What is disgraceful is that the emergency services took 40-60 minutes to get to poor Harry. Why?

@PopUpName

I've always assumed that Harry Dunn's mum is grieving. As any of us would be in her shoes.

The other baying for the blood of the American witch who knowingly murdered boy and then fled justice - I've always assumed that's anti-Americanism.

Someone upthread compared her to Roman Polanski, who intentionally and knowingly raped a child.

Whatever we may think of her leaving the UK, it's ridiculous to suggest that she intended to put anyone in danger.

If it is anti-Americanism then it is not unfounded given the inequality of extradition arrangements (not just for her but everyone). The complaints aren't about her actions so much as her running away. Even if the US government told her to do it, they couldn't prevent her returning to face a proper trial if she had any guts or decency, but she doesn't.

So she can just walk away scot free? How many people would feel that’s OK if that was their child who was killed? Oh it’s an accident, well that’s OK then as long as she didn’t mean it...