Help me understand please Advice really needed

[Sun90]

Hello everyone, I hope lockdown hasn't been to hard on you!

I am looking for advice on 8 year old am going to say a girl not that it really matters (I think).

Now I don't have any older children and I do not remember being 8 myself so people with 8 year olds could possibly understand better for me. I do have a child but he is only a baby so no experience so far!

Just to clarify I am not this child's step mum in anyway (although I do feel I am) I am not recognised as her SM by my DSD herself or her mum which I understand it must be hard to understand so I don't push. I have always said to DSD we are friends she didn't give me any reaction to this but I felt it was the best way to clear it up as when I take her to the park. A man might say oh sorry my daughter wants to play with your daughter and DSD will stare at me intensely until I clarify she isn't my daughter. don't think I've ever heard her call me by my name I've been in her life 6 years but I think I will never understand so I don't pull my hair out trying to.

So DSD is 8 (to me personally she is my stepdaughter in my heart but shh lol)

my partner and his ex same old really didn't get on she stopped contact none could understand why we went to court got granted a fair order we have her every other weekend and half the holidays so every other weekend my partner has off work with his daughter i am on maternity leave atm will be returning to work also I do activities with her we have a nice relationship never any problem.

DSD is due to come in the April holiday my partner may have to work some of those days and I will be responsible for DSD (this is why court orders are a shame that we cant get on and agree she should of gone back to her mums for a few hours with her brothers to play bless her but DP wont allow it neither would DSD mum the other way round)

so normally when DSD is here with DP I think its incredibly sweet he does everything for her opens the wardrobe door picks her clothes opens her shoes so she can get them on does her shoe laces she is a very quiet child so he will ask her 6 or 7 times a day if she's okay if she is thirsty hungry needs a poo when she goes for a wash he fills the sink unplugs it for her fills the bath unplugs it for her washes and dries her hair puts her coat on cleans up after her whatever she uses or I do if its mess in the front room not bad mess just juice cartons ect.

Do you as parents do this for your 8 year olds I'm a little nervous about having her alone because I feel I will not be able to do all of this for her as I have a son to look after and my usual cleaning shopping etc. also as an individual I am very independent (not sure about that age) but I don't think to ask if someone needs help unless they ask me for help of course but she isn't a child who will verbally ask for help she will stare at me until I kind of figure it out but when I'm really busy I'm worried I wont notice I have a baby to care for and you know how demanding they can be? with filling a sink or opening shoes to get them on I would just say put your shoes on or go and have a wash I'm nervous she will just stand there until i do it?

Should 8 year olds have these independent skills? Or are there parents out there with 8 year olds do you do everything for them ( even picking toys for them to play with)??

Like I said as well and this is very important she does not verbally ask for anything she doesn't seem to know a lot if she is asked like fave food or colour …. she will stare at us or just look sad until we go through the questions and hopefully get the right one?

I take her to the shop to pick sweeties but she just stands there and stares at them we have to pick the packets up and ask this one or this one she shakes her head we put them down until we get a nod?

to be honest this one is a little annoying with the pandemic people have to follow a one way system and it can sometimes clog up the isle because we have been there so long i get worried that I'm in peoples way but DP will say we are entitled to be there too I am very cautious of people I don't want to make someone more anxious than they already are.

I feel like DP and DSD kind of laugh at me in a way when I wait and let people past because I have a pushchair again I feel bad that I'm making partner and dsd wait because they went past and now I'm behind its all weird stuff?

Its easy with my partner here because he is happy to do that all day with DSD but I'm so nervous about having her alone it keeps me up at night.

Any advice at all please? I just want whats best for her to be honest but like I said I don't naturally think the same way as DP does and there is nothing I can do about that.

Thanks in advance guys

I have an eight year old son and do some things for him you have mentioned, but he has asd. If your husband didn't do the things, do you think she would be able to understand and do them herself? If he didn't ask if she needed the toilet what would happen? when you ask her favourite colour does she understand or do you think she just doesn't want to talk?

This is all very weird sounding.

Your DSD won't speak or smile or anything or ask for specific sweets in the shop but she'll laugh at you with your partner when you let someone past?

That doesn't tally.

Also...it's not normal to ask an 8 year old if she needs a poo no. Nor is it normal to put their coat on for them unless there are special needs at play.

The shoes...meh. My 13 year old took till she was 12 to learn to tie her own laces.

Asking if she wants food? Normal. Drinks? Not normal...most 8 year olds would just get a drink.

Running the bath? I do that for mine at times because they wouldn't bother otherwise...kids are manky when they're older.

Cleaning up after her...not unusual but not sensible.

Most kids here age are wanting to pick their own outfits so he should stop doing that!

It all sounds uncomfortable and like you don't communicate with your partner well.

An 8 yo boy does some of those things. He dresses himself but mostly I get his clothes out. Sometimes he needs game and toy suggestions but mostly he just gets on with it and tells us. Sometimes it involves one of us sitting with him joining in but not always. I feel is the same with his friends. IMHO with a baby I would set up a play area -choice of books, pens paper where you are snd plan moments of going to the park snd TV. Structure is good they like to know a plan in advance too

@MinnieJackson

Thank you for your reply, thank you for sharing about your son would you say if he did not have asd he would be able to do these things for himself as I wouldn't know I haven't lived with an 8 year old before.

I know her dad has mentioned she's had a few accidents normally when he picks her up from school not heard of any incidents where its come from home so I'm thinking maybe forgetting to go to the loo as the journey is longer to our house.

and I don't know if she understands or not that's what worries me her expression is very hard to read if she's understood. however I have noticed when her cousin comes to stay she always brushes her hair brushes her teeth gets changed herself is very efficient with knowing where her stuff is and puts it all back in her bag but she is 7 so i don't know if that makes a difference but then DSD seems to want to do things herself so i have seen her do these things voluntarily but maybe children that age only remember when there with there friends i don't know?

like i said i don't have a child this age only a baby so I'm very new to it haha!

thanks :)

She won't do those things for herself if her Dad always does them. She may like the attention OR she may be afraid of upsetting him if she asks to do them herself.

Have you asked your partner why hes doing everything for her? Talk to him...tell him he needs to help her become independent. In a couple of years she'll be in high school! That time goes fast I can tell you.

@FortunesFave

Thank you for your comment.

I wouldn't say its because we don't communicate well id say there is many differences between a man and a woman my partner isn't looking at his daughter and picking what she should and shouldn't be doing he just loves her and does it naturally and I think that's wonderful his choice and they have a great relationship i just don't have the time or natural thought pattern like him so i worry.

I have seen her do these things for herself but only with friends ect so i just wanted to know as parents if this was normal behaviour. I don't get overly involved in decisions about my DSD not my place so i feel when i have her alone she may see it as I'm telling her what to do but I'm not. I just think some things she should do by herself but 8 year olds may not (only when with there friends lol) I wouldn't know am here to love support and look after not have deep discussions about my opinion on my partners daughter.

I find weird offensive because everyone has there own interpretation of weird so a little kinder words wouldn't go amiss thank you.

I have a lot going on in my life like most people and do not reach out to be slammed by someone i don't know i am looking for useful advice not a matter of opinion.

I just want to make sure I'm not ignoring signs if she feels she cannot communicate for whatever reason and how i go about changing it.

Again i appreciate the comment :)

My 8yo does most of those things for himself, although I wash his hair (afro so I expect to continue doing so for longer than parents of white children), I often run his bath although he’s perfectly capable, and if I didn’t prompt him to drink water I don’t think he’d drink enough. Some of the stuff you describe I would do for a visiting child though (like checking if hungry) and while she’s not a ‘visitor’ she clearly doesn’t feel entirely comfortable (no blame just observation).

However. I’m not sure it’ll help you much just to know what other 8 year olds can do - it doesn’t necessarily tell you what this 8 year old can do. I’d be inclined to offer her as much support as her father does, so that she’s not losing his presence and support that she may well need, all in one go. I know that’s hard with a baby too, but I would do it.

Your dh is acting very strange and it’s harming the child’s development. Why does he do it, as it is weird to ask an 8 year old if she needs the toilet or a drink constantly. She needs to be far more independent.

id say there is many differences between a man and a woman my partner isn't looking at his daughter and picking what she should and shouldn't be doing he just loves her and does it naturally

Nothing to do with his gender. Nothing at all. He's overbearing and smothering her. Watch he isn't the same with yours.

I think maybe your husband should ask your dsd's mum if she has noticed any of these things, or if at home she's more independent. My 7 year old dresses himself and puts his shoes on himself. He can make toast (supervised). I run the baths anyway and wash their hair, but they do bodies themselves. I think your husband has his heart in the right place but if possible maybe try baby steps to get her to be a little more forthcoming. Maybe lightly say 'ok, go and choose your clothes and get dressed' and see what happens.

Could your partner act in this way because he left the home when she was young and doesn't know what she is capable of doing?
Is she like this with her mum?

If the child is like this all the time it is unusual

Do you know what she’s like at school or at her mums?
I think it’s very unusual; the only part that sounds normal is the mess but we always told DSD to tidy those things away. I came into DSDs life when she was 6 and DH and his family very much babied DSD in getting her dressed etc but that was a mixture of them not really realising she was growing up, making up for time missed and her quite enjoying that. When we encouraged her to do it herself she did

My 4 year old can dress themselves, use the toilet, wash their hands, get a snack from the cupboard, put their own coat and shoes on. Not showing off, I think these are standard things a 4 year can do. I don’t think that’s normal for an 8 year old. By that age I could make my parents a cuppa (cup of tea badge at brownies which is why I remember 🤣) and make basic meals like sandwiches, toast, beans on toast etc.

Is she like this at home, does your DH realise what she is capable of doing for herself?

Well she'll be doing all those things independently at school.....Apart from running a bath and reaching the kitchen tap I would say those tasks were all things my DC were doing by themselves by 4-5. They needed encouraging to tidy up mind you. Heck did was cooking pancakes wth minimal supervision aged 8....

Not verbally communicating her needs sounds very odd.

Tbh it doesnt sound right to me. My very normal 4 year old goes to the loo when he needs, wash his hands and brushes his teeth (we do an extra brush at the end to make sure they are done properly), will get himself a cup of water etc. When given permission he will make himself a peanut butter sandwich or can get snacks/fruit from the cupboard. He puts his own coat, shoes and socks on (with a bit of nagging) and hangs up his own coat when he gets in.

If he is hungry he will make us very aware, and he definitely would not struggle to tell you what sweets he wanted in a shop!

Either there is something amiss with your SD , either emotionally or intellectually . Could she be on the autistic spectrum? It can be harder to diagnose in girls. Your husband may be trying too hard or not aware of what children can do at 8 years of age. Could he discuss it with his ex, or with his daughter?

Both my grandchildren are very independent at 7 and 9. They shower and wash their hair without being asked and choose what to wear and dress themselves. The 7 year old prefers Velcro fitted shoes though as his lace ups keep coming undone. They put themselves to bed as there are two younger children. Sometimes they read a bedtime story to the 4 year old. Their pocket money depends on their bedrooms and play areas being kept tidy. Even the 4 year old can tidy up well now.
They have plenty to say about what they want to eat! They can both prepare pancakes and cookies etc but don't use the stove or oven. The oldest one could but she is scared.
One day I arrived and found the 4 year old eating Weet-Bix with ice cream! He explained that the 3L bottle of milk was too heavy to remove from the fridge but he could manage the ice cream! Happy smile on his face.

Thank you so much for your comments to be honest in the back of my mind I did think an 8 year old is capable of a lot to be honest you only have to watch great British bake off to notice but I think what her dad does for her is his choice I don’t agree and I don’t feel I should have to do the same things when I have her alone I just worry she won’t eat or drink and it could be down to her not feeling comfortable but I’m having a hard time seeing that because I’ve never really said no to her I don’t feel it’s my place if I talk to my partner about it he shuts down with me and I’m worried he thinks I’m putting him down or judging him I’m not I just think for her sake her independence is important

I can’t change my partner and what he does but I can change myself I don’t believe in doing everything for her at all but how do I try and work with her to become independent again if I have any kind of conversation with DSD myself she just looks at me and does not respond. (If it’s anything to do with her trying herself)

I spoke to her mum and she said that she does all those things for DSD too because that means she still needs her and she isn’t ready to let her do it yet again I can’t change this but surely I can teach her that I do things a different way it says online by a child therapist that a girl her age is looking for responsibility and wants to feel a part of something but I don’t feel this is the case with DSD if anyone has the answers that will be great haha

And as for my own son I’m not worried about his dad and how he is with him because I will be with him most of the time so I know what I need to do to help him become independent so my own son isn’t a worry.

This is brilliant you should be very proud and I’m sure your little ones will become very responsible independent adults I hope my own son turns out the same I allow my son (6 months) to feed himself purée and bottles but again my DP says don’t let him always do it himself otherwise he won’t end up letting me do it but isn’t that the point that I’m suppose to teach him to be independent not rely on me for basic things he can do himself.

I find it unusal she cant pick her own sweets or ask what she wants. I would be encouraging dp to talk to school (when shes back at school) and ask.if the teacher has any developmental concerns.

If she’s at mainstream school then she can do most of the things you mention. Both her parents are treating her very oddly and her lack of speech is definitely rather worrying.

In terms of how you behave I’d suggest that you plan the day in broad terms, serve her food regularly and make sure she has access to drinks but not keep checking. Repeat that she should/ can help herself to fruit/ snacks or whatever and then leave it.

When it’s time to go out just warn her you are leaving in ten minutes so go to the loo and get ready please.

Ask her to help you with the baby or any little jobs you are doing, all DC like to be useful and praised.

Try chatting as you go around rather than face to face conversations which she obviously finds difficult.

And try not to worry, you are doing her parents a favour, just feed and water and keep vaguely entertained. That’s enough.

Most 8 year olds are working towards being independent. Almost there but may need prompting and some help. So can choose on clothes but may need reminding about putting washing in washing basket, can put shoes on but may need prompting rather than sit and stare into space for a while...it does sound a bit like the independence isn’t being encouraged

Is you have a routine set up and she is not speaking. I would write it down and pin it up somewhere. She should be able to read and saves the pressure she may feel with speech

I can see why she doesn’t bother tidying up after herself etc if someone always does it for her, but not being able to pick a sweet for example does sound unusual. Does she converse normally at other times? Chat to you and her dad? Engage with her sibling?
Mine are 7 and 5 and do all the things in your post except bath themselves.

I spoke to her mum and she said that she does all those things for DSD too because that means she still needs her and she isn't ready to let her do it yet

There's your answer. They are still treating her like a baby because they don't want her to develop and become independent of them. She is responding by behaving like one.