Help me understand please Advice really needed

[Sun90]

Hello everyone, I hope lockdown hasn't been to hard on you!

I am looking for advice on 8 year old am going to say a girl not that it really matters (I think).

Now I don't have any older children and I do not remember being 8 myself so people with 8 year olds could possibly understand better for me. I do have a child but he is only a baby so no experience so far!

Just to clarify I am not this child's step mum in anyway (although I do feel I am) I am not recognised as her SM by my DSD herself or her mum which I understand it must be hard to understand so I don't push. I have always said to DSD we are friends she didn't give me any reaction to this but I felt it was the best way to clear it up as when I take her to the park. A man might say oh sorry my daughter wants to play with your daughter and DSD will stare at me intensely until I clarify she isn't my daughter. don't think I've ever heard her call me by my name I've been in her life 6 years but I think I will never understand so I don't pull my hair out trying to.

So DSD is 8 (to me personally she is my stepdaughter in my heart but shh lol)

my partner and his ex same old really didn't get on she stopped contact none could understand why we went to court got granted a fair order we have her every other weekend and half the holidays so every other weekend my partner has off work with his daughter i am on maternity leave atm will be returning to work also I do activities with her we have a nice relationship never any problem.

DSD is due to come in the April holiday my partner may have to work some of those days and I will be responsible for DSD (this is why court orders are a shame that we cant get on and agree she should of gone back to her mums for a few hours with her brothers to play bless her but DP wont allow it neither would DSD mum the other way round)

so normally when DSD is here with DP I think its incredibly sweet he does everything for her opens the wardrobe door picks her clothes opens her shoes so she can get them on does her shoe laces she is a very quiet child so he will ask her 6 or 7 times a day if she's okay if she is thirsty hungry needs a poo when she goes for a wash he fills the sink unplugs it for her fills the bath unplugs it for her washes and dries her hair puts her coat on cleans up after her whatever she uses or I do if its mess in the front room not bad mess just juice cartons ect.

Do you as parents do this for your 8 year olds I'm a little nervous about having her alone because I feel I will not be able to do all of this for her as I have a son to look after and my usual cleaning shopping etc. also as an individual I am very independent (not sure about that age) but I don't think to ask if someone needs help unless they ask me for help of course but she isn't a child who will verbally ask for help she will stare at me until I kind of figure it out but when I'm really busy I'm worried I wont notice I have a baby to care for and you know how demanding they can be? with filling a sink or opening shoes to get them on I would just say put your shoes on or go and have a wash I'm nervous she will just stand there until i do it?

Should 8 year olds have these independent skills? Or are there parents out there with 8 year olds do you do everything for them ( even picking toys for them to play with)??

Like I said as well and this is very important she does not verbally ask for anything she doesn't seem to know a lot if she is asked like fave food or colour …. she will stare at us or just look sad until we go through the questions and hopefully get the right one?

I take her to the shop to pick sweeties but she just stands there and stares at them we have to pick the packets up and ask this one or this one she shakes her head we put them down until we get a nod?

to be honest this one is a little annoying with the pandemic people have to follow a one way system and it can sometimes clog up the isle because we have been there so long i get worried that I'm in peoples way but DP will say we are entitled to be there too I am very cautious of people I don't want to make someone more anxious than they already are.

I feel like DP and DSD kind of laugh at me in a way when I wait and let people past because I have a pushchair again I feel bad that I'm making partner and dsd wait because they went past and now I'm behind its all weird stuff?

Its easy with my partner here because he is happy to do that all day with DSD but I'm so nervous about having her alone it keeps me up at night.

Any advice at all please? I just want whats best for her to be honest but like I said I don't naturally think the same way as DP does and there is nothing I can do about that.

Thanks in advance guys

I still don't understand why she doesn't think of you as her step mum. Is it because you and her Dad aren't married? Does she even know whether or not you are. (I am assuming you aren't because you say partner not husband).
Many children have no idea if their parents aren't actually married (that is biological parents who live together as a couple with their kids) - it would only be if a conversation about weddings or something came up and the child asks "did you and Dad have so and so at your wedding?" that the child might 'find out'.
What does being a step mum mean to her?

@Sun90 Sounds like you have gone as far as anyone possibly could to include her and do the best for her. Moving forward, when you’re in charge I would change things by saying go and have a wash now rather than fill the sink for her, say go and put your shoes on etc. She can do all these things. Your husband chooses to and you can choose for her to do it herself. You aren’t asking her to cook a 3 course meal. She will thank you for it one day

My 6 year old has some additional needs but still manages to dress herself, go to the toilet (she can't always wipe herself though due to her needs), she can get herself a drink from the water dispenser on the fridge.

She doesn't tidy up, but thats pretty normal among her friends so not worried. I still run her bath for her and brush her hair but otherwise she's pretty independent.

@Ilovemaisie

Again if you ask her any direct question she shuts down won’t answer her mum and boyfriend are due to be married very soon so I’m sure she understands marriage and she speaks very highly of mums new partner which is great but i think it’s my partner to be honest and yes (not my husband) like I said I’ve never heard DSD call my name she calls our house daddy’s house she doesn’t see it as my house too so I really don’t know :/

Provide meals. Put out drinks occasionally. Buy sweets and offer them. Unless she actively dislikes everything you've got (and I'm sure you're aware by now what she will and won't eat) she won't be hungry or thirsty.

Tell her when you're going to be going out soon, then tell her to go to the loo and put her shoes on. At any other time you don't need to tell her. If she has an accident just say "oops, were you too busy playing? don't leave it quite so long next time, eh?" then get her to rinse herself off, redress and put her own wet clothes in the washing machine (or a bucket next to it if it's busy).

If you're going to be doing a specific thing for the baby - like change a nappy - ask her if she wants to come and help (ie watch, at least at first).

Occasionally if you're not doing anything else ask if she wants to sit on the settee and hold the baby for a bit (with you there to make sure it's all ok, but not part of the cuddle).

Have you tried not clarifying your relationship to people? You say she stares at you intensely, but I'm not sure I could tell the difference between a child wanting you to say it and wondering whether you're going to. She might think it's something you do for yourself. If it is actually her preference, she can always say so.

If she's up and seems to want someone to get her dressed, open the wardrobe and say "what do you want to wear? - how about the stripy one or would you prefer the polka dots? - ah, let's go for long sleeves, it's a bit chilly today - there you go, don't forget to put your pyjamas under the pillow"; then leave her alone and come back a bit later asking "do you need any help with the buttons?"

She's not giving you any information, so don't keep pushing for it. If she doesn't respond, behave as though she doesn't mind which.

I'm afraid you might have to give up on the idea of family cuddles watching the telly though (neither of mine was ever really up for that either).

Hi - OP, your SD sounds quite similar to my daughter. She's 9 and not very chatty or cuddly.

She's exactly the same when choosing sweets in a shop too - right down to blocking the aisle. She's not great with choices will worry about choosing the wrong sweets and stand debating for ages. I try and avoid by getting her to choose before we get to the shop or I get something she likes in the online shop.

She gets dressed fine independently but will often wear the same thing over and over or I will give her two choices to make it simpler.

I need to remind her to get a drink and often to drink it. She doesn't seem to feel thirsty until it's been hours.

When she stays with you outline your day so she knows what to expect. My daughter is good at finding things to do but doesn't like stopping in mid activity if we need to go out. But she is generally really keen to help with jobs around the house. Often she is most chatty when the focus is on something other than her.

@merryhouse

Thank you for your comment I will definitely try this when she is with me but I can’t help but feel it’s how you would talk to and treat a toddler?

I don't really know what to suggest I am afraid. I am a bit stumped.

@stripeymonster

This is great to know!! My DSD sounds very similar to your daughter do you think it could literally be her personality? Do you do most things for your daughter? Thanks a lot I really appreciate the post I was starting to think from some of the comments she was doing it on purpose!

@Ilovemaisie

Me too I’m always stumped every other weekend haha thanks for the help x

Hope it improves for you Sun90.

My DCs are 7 and 9 and although they’re not backawards about coming forwards with me, I have no doubt they would let themselves be waited on hand and foot of that option is open to them. Sometimes I’ve had to retrain them after coming from staying with their Dad because they’ve been pampered so much they forget the basics.

DD can be shy and reluctant to make choices - I have told them they’re not allowed to a) hint about wanting something, b) sigh or do puppy dog eyes instead of asking or c) ask vaguely - this might sound mean but I was sick of it! So they can’t say “I’m hungry” and expect me to leap into action suggesting this that and the other, they have to say “can I have a cereal bar” etc. Don’t ask, don’t get. I do come across students I teach at college who won’t ever ask outright for something so I think it’s important they learn how to do that.

@GravityFalls

I think that was my main concern that if she cannot verbally express what she wants or how she feels it’s not going to be good later on she won’t learn how to make choices it’s hard being ‘dads girlfriend’ it’s not my place to insert any rules for my DSD I wouldn’t much rather have a positive relationship with her mum that way we can all work together but we don’t all get what we want and no I think your approach is very straight forward I would be the same with my own son

@GravityFalls I would much rather have a positive relationship with her mum I meant lol auto correct

@MusicTeacherSussex

I take it your a teacher so your input is very valuable to me. I understand it must be hard for her but I don’t understand why she behaves this way I’ve never told her off only once because she wanted to jump on the sofa it was brand new her dad told her twice she didn’t listen I said very assertively to sit down and she did instantly when her cousin came the next day I heard DSD tell her cousin to jump on the sofa knowing her cousin would get into trouble I was shocked as to why she did that. But yes tough love will be the approach I take when she’s with me alone what I can understand and please shed some light if you can is she sees me and her dad being very polite to each other DP is very helpful around the house he cooks dinners and is generally very clean man I thought children normally follow the environment they are in but like I said her dad does baby her and he has admitted it today actually after I had the convo I was concerned it may be learning difficulties he was so angry and straight away admitted it’s because him and DSD mum baby her but I can’t change how he is with her she ignores people when they come into my home and lays across the sofa so none can sit down I wait to see if my partner says anything and he don’t so one day I said to DSD if your going to ignore people that’s your choice but I find it very rude and I like to make sure everyone who comes into our home is welcome and if you can’t do that then you stay in your room until they have left.

My partner agreed and it worked well for the first few weekends but then it sort of faded out and she went back to ignoring family and again none of the family my side or his seem to think it’s rude they just say oh that’s kids but I would be so angry with my son if someone came in our home he ignored them they give him money for sweets no thank you nothing but like I said all the adults around me don’t see a problem

OP I'm not a children's teacher but I do teach them if they are up to it! I have met children like this before and some of them were dragged out of the behavior by their parents, and look back with embarrassment, but these are neurotypical kids. Some of them are now teenagers and still with me, and are fine. The contact issues and staring and not answering direct questions really sounds like ASD to me, so if you haven't investigated it then someone needs to as she may need some help at school and later in life. I teach some children and some adults who are ASD and I can change my methods to suit them but it helps if you know if she is neurodiverse, spoiled or has a really rude personality.

Anecdotally, I know two separate neurotypical adults whose parents treated them that way. Their parents STILL treat them that way. One is 25, can't cook beyond toast, has never put a wash on, freaked out at her mate offering to wash her jeans as she wouldn't do it "the way her mum does" and has managed to alienate people with her views about mental health and life situations. She was bought Frozen toys for xmas. Not Ironically.

[quote Sun90]@merryhouse

Thank you for your comment I will definitely try this when she is with me but I can’t help but feel it’s how you would talk to and treat a toddler?[/quote]
Yes but she's behaving like a toddler! You start where she is, and then move forward as she responds. Just like you would with any other child (it's just that you've not felt able to take the lead in this instance).

As for when her cousin came the next day I heard DSD tell her cousin to jump on the sofa knowing her cousin would get into trouble

I think this is a clear instance of her testing the boundaries. She wants to know exactly where she stands. You told her something was unacceptable - so she stopped doing it, which is a very good sign - and she seized the first opportunity to check that it is still unacceptable even on a different day, or from someone other than her. I don't think she was trying to get her cousin into trouble: after all, you'd only told her to stop, hadn't you?

To be honest, I think this child is crying out for you to parent her. Of course you have to do it very tactfully and gently, but I suspect that if you do it will bear fruit.

Sounds very odd OP. But I've got a very confident, outspoken, doesn't need no help from anyone, 8 year old nephew.

Thinking back my youngest sister was like this. If she didn't pick what she wanted she didn't get anything no one has time to point out every option. She started using her voice alot more when she started missing out.

@merryhouse

I completely agree with you 100% thank you for your support it’s the most I’ve had on here it’s such a shame my partner thinks I’m being abit rude by explaining I’m worried about having her because of the things I put in my post he takes it really bad and admits it’s down to their parenting and he over compensates for his daughter because he isn’t with her full time.

But development is obviously at risk here and hopefully I can help fingers crossed.

And your right I suppose I looked at it wrong with trying to get in trouble I was shocked because she loves her cousin and her cousin encourages her to be more open and the relationship is incredible I get to do all the fun things like buy snacks and put music on they will dance and say please and thank you ask normal kid questions DSD also chats away

And then her cousin goes.......

Back to normal and I haven’t changed at all still the same silly daddy’s girlfriend I’m one of those people who are constantly ‘on’ if that makes sense will play with the kids for hours build houses from boxes feed birds I love it DSD loves it but again alone these activities are awkward and hard work in a way but still fun when her cousin is here independent choices no help needed completely different.

@MusicTeacherSussex

I think your absolutely right thank you for your comment it does make sense i suppose it’s the approach I’m trying to work out I have the tools and the attitude I know that for sure but it’s the approach I’m not so good at I’m a bubbly character some people I suppose would find me too much in a situation but it seems to help DSD it’s more when I do have down time or I have to work from home (even though I’m on mat leave) or having to do something else of importance she behaves this way.

Do you think the same signs could show with social isolation not so much asd? Like a form of anxiety?

Thanks :)

m.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOHnt4PMFo

Have you watched this video?

I think you have an autistic child here and her parents are avoiding admitting she needs help.

I think isolation would be a factor of course but it sounds like the parents are the ones to blame, either for teaching her to behave this way or for ignoring the need for a potential diagnosis. You seem really tuned in so, well done on flagging up your instincts here. How are you getting on? Have you chatted to your partner about your concerns?

@MusicTeacherSussex

I think isolation would be a factor of course but it sounds like the parents are the ones to blame, either for teaching her to behave this way or for ignoring the need for a potential diagnosis. You seem really tuned in so, well done on flagging up your instincts here. How are you getting on? Have you chatted to your partner about your concerns?

@MusicTeacherSussex

Thanks for checking in....

I believe it’s a mixture of bad behaviour and isolation I asked her mum if she has sleepovers (before pandemic) if she went to a friends for tea and if a friend went to hers she told me no she hasn’t her friends are allowed at her house but the other way round it sounds as if she isn’t allowed yet I think it’s allowing DSD to do as she pleases and social isolation she doesn’t know how to communicate I spoke to my partner about the possibility she has a learning disability he was not happy with me did not speak to me for the rest of the day......

I spoke to a child therapist on the quiet and she told me that the only way I’m going to make any changes is by leading by example so taking the lead with DSD and showing dad she is more independent than he thinks.

But I know she’s independent she’s just choosing not to be........

I feel if I took over and tried to lead by example it gives my DP a chance to sit back and not take any responsibility I’m sorry but I didn’t have a break up from my partner it was him and his ex I feel like it’s not my place to try and fix something I didn’t break in the first place?

The child therapist also said it sounds like she is waiting for me to parent her but it’s bloody hard to know what someone wants when they don’t say anything!!

I’ve resulted to a place now where I’ve realised I’ve gotta like it or lump it so I’ve decided to go back to work early so I don’t have to look after DSD my DP sister will have to look after her but even my DPs family her auntie and uncles have all admitted to me not DP that she’s very difficult they are happy to have my son but not her?

OMG!! Haha