Do you WANT longer school days and shorter school holidays?

[shadowlily]

YABU- yes I want schools to have longer school days and shorter holidays

YANBU- no I'd rather keep the hours/terms we have.

I keep seeing this is being discussed in the media today, do you think it's likely to happen? Personally I think kids would benefit more from the summer holiday and being able to catch up on the activities they've missed and socialisation with friends. They've been home schooled to keep up with the curriculum (for the most part! I know this might be a contentious statement for some!) but nothing has replaced the play dates, day trips, parties etc. they have missed.

What do you think?

Two week half terms at June would really muck up external exams.

Longer days would mean that all those specialist clubs with specialist coaches which focus on athletics, swimming, diving, hi-jump, rugby, football, tennis, piano, violin, ballet, tap etc just wouldn’t happen. The local athletics club to us has children attending after school every night from miles away-those specialisms are not something that schools could ever possibly replicate. It’s these hobbies and clubs that get people into national competitions, tournaments, the Olympic. Would people really forego all that experience and fun, just so that some can pay a bit less childcare for a few years?!

Definitely no to more PE. Reduce PE if more time for school subjects is needed (so would include the option of PE as an exam subject for older kids who want to do it). It's the parent's responsibility to ensure their child's health and fitness ultimately. Extra time prancing about on a field or worse being bullied daily is not going to be beneficial to a lot of children. But I actually think this situation will correct itself given time. It should not be used as a front to push these changes through. Everyone in a school year will have lived through the covid outbreak and therefore the exam results will still reflect relative ability as they do now. Children (assuming no other issues) will be fine if they are left alone to get back into their familiar routines.

I personally dont believe any of it. Its all just more smoke and mirrors and pathetic PR exercise purely in an attempt to regain some ‘positive’ traction for their chum Mr Gavin Williamson. In the end, they will do nothing ...but at least they talked about it...and so did we...then it will all just blow away in the wind and onto good times ahead...just as quickly as post vaccine COVID 🤔🤨

Holidays should remain as they are, they need the proper long break in Summer, as do teachers.
I would tentatively support either 4 x 7 hour days with a day of in the week (would fit in far better for a lot of working parents, and give them a chance to catch up in the week) or at least 4 longer days, and a half day. I think they do that in France, and it works well for all concerned.

I'd prefer that schools used the last few weeks of the Summer term more wisely. It seems to be a "void" period, more so as the mid July break-up gets closer. There doesn't seem to be any impetus once the end of year tests have been done. Lots of lessons become "fillers" i.e. doing quizzes, watching videos, rehearsals for drama/sports, jollies (AKA field trips), etc. To get back on track after covid, it would be good if those 2/3 weeks were put to better use, i.e. proper lessons right through to the last day of term.

Alternatively, I've often wondered whether pupils shouldn't "move up" into the next year for the last two weeks (i.e. July) instead of moving up first day back. It would give two weeks to do the admin (handing out books, going through outline of syllabus, etc so that the pupils and teachers could hit the ground running first day back after Summer instead of doing the "admin" tasks.

Regardless of the above, I do think that the fundamentals need to be prioritised, i.e. expand the time and prioritise the lessons for Maths and English at the very least. No missing of those lessons for extra-curricula drama/sports/music practice, maybe reduce whatever compulsory subjects are taken in years 7-9 where most people don't take them on as options in years 10-11 (Music, drama, tech, art, or whatever subjects aren't popular to GCSE in that particular school).

Longer school days wouldn't be more productive.

There are some good arguments for shorter days for younger kids, in fact.

Holidays could be modified, in any number of ways, that might be useful. But I'm not sure it's useful as a one-off.

What might be good is to offer kids some remedial school if their parents want it. For basics mainly.

My girls are both in primary school. What I think may work well is for an extra half an hour added on to the day - say 15 min at each end of the day to avoid disrupting after school activities, downtime, etc and also reduce the summer holidays by one week. It's a compromise that would work well for both primary and secondary and still has the pupils needs for education, social activities, family, holidays etc and parents requirements at the fore. It wouldn't be permanent surely just for a year or so. How far behind are they? In both lockdowns, we were given activities and work from school surely most schools did the same. I know it's been difficult to supervise and oversee what needed to be done. If there are areas a child is behind on with could be sent home for completion during the holidays. Giving parents extra time to help their children if needs be but also have time for the social elements to life. If the parents or kids won't do the work then surely at some point you have to say ‘well that's on you, take responsibility.

@GallowayESS

I personally dont believe any of it. Its all just more smoke and mirrors and pathetic PR exercise purely in an attempt to regain some ‘positive’ traction for their chum Mr Gavin Williamson. In the end, they will do nothing ...but at least they talked about it...and so did we...then it will all just blow away in the wind and onto good times ahead...just as quickly as post vaccine COVID 🤔🤨

Sadly I agree. Despite all the talk of reform etc., schools really havn't changed much from the 60s and 70s. There's been a lot of disruptive and costly re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, but the fundamentals are still pretty much the same. A secondary school timetable today looks remarkably similar to one from the 70s - same subjects, same school day timings, etc. - the only difference is slight changes to what they call the subjects, i.e. RE has become REP, cooking has become food tech, woodwork has become design tech, but scratch the surface, and it's pretty much the same! Oh, yes, another "change" is that whilst scrappy worksheets used to be printed purple off a Gestetner duplicator, they're now in b&w or colour from a copier or laser printer. Or instead of chalk on blackboards, it's marker pens on white boards. The fundamental change that is sorely needed will never happen because it's "too hard".

Not really. If we really have to, I'd be happier with longer days but my children are y5 and 7, I think the day is long enough for little ones and they have so many school years ahead of them to catch up

Alternatively, I've often wondered whether pupils shouldn't "move up" into the next year for the last two weeks (i.e. July) instead of moving up first day back. It would give two weeks to do the admin (handing out books, going through outline of syllabus, etc so that the pupils and teachers could hit the ground running first day back after Summer instead of doing the "admin" tasks

We've done this in my school in Victoria for 5 years now. What it means is designing an identical course for each year group's subjects. None of it is book-based, as families in Vic schools have to buy their own texts and materials, but is the genuine first two weeks of what they would have been taught in the new academic year. It is not filler. It works well but is very knackering for the teachers as they have to ping right back from exam and report writing into shiny fluffy new year mode for new students.

@echt

Alternatively, I've often wondered whether pupils shouldn't "move up" into the next year for the last two weeks (i.e. July) instead of moving up first day back. It would give two weeks to do the admin (handing out books, going through outline of syllabus, etc so that the pupils and teachers could hit the ground running first day back after Summer instead of doing the "admin" tasks

We've done this in my school in Victoria for 5 years now. What it means is designing an identical course for each year group's subjects. None of it is book-based, as families in Vic schools have to buy their own texts and materials, but is the genuine first two weeks of what they would have been taught in the new academic year. It is not filler. It works well but is very knackering for the teachers as they have to ping right back from exam and report writing into shiny fluffy new year mode for new students.

Interesting, do you have a 6/7 week Summer break in Vic?

YANBU. My kid deserves a rest.

also reduce the summer holidays by one week. It's a compromise that would work well for both primary and secondary and still has the pupils needs for education, social activities, family, holidays etc and parents requirements at the fore. It wouldn't be permanent surely just for a year or so

So, just for a year or so? And would you remove the first week of the school holiday this year, when I’ve booked a week away or the last week of the holiday, when my job share has booked and the week away? How would you select whose summer holiday you ruined?

It's honestly a relief to read that most parents understand kids aren't robots and longer days wouldn't be good for them EVEN if it was good for parents childcare needs.

They're children. Not battery hens and they're hopefully in this life for a marathon not a sprint and burnt out by exam years.

Kids mental health has been going downhill for years now. They don't need more school, more learning, more pressure.

Children aren't "behind" anything other than an artificially constructed curriculum which sets arbitrary levels on children's knowledge based on nothing but the "expectation"of what children should know at a given age/stage. If the Government said that the standard expected at the end of primary was that which is now expected at the end of Year 5 then, hey presto, everyone in year 6 is suddenly where they need to be and not behind at all! It is the Government that sets the expectation, there is no global agreement of what a child of any given age should know so therefore no child is "behind"

Interesting, do you have a 6/7 week Summer break in Vic?

No, it's 5 weeks, some times 5 and some days, depending on Australia Day. Private schools have longer.

What we do have in the last week of term before the summer holidays is a suspended timetable (the introductory copiers is the two weeks before). There are no lessons, though any student who turns up will be gainfully employed. Parents can also book appointments for reports feedback. Staff have meetings, prep for the next year. Students rarely, if ever, turn up.

Copiers???? Course.

@spanieleyes spot on

@DrCoconut

Definitely no to more PE. Reduce PE if more time for school subjects is needed (so would include the option of PE as an exam subject for older kids who want to do it). It's the parent's responsibility to ensure their child's health and fitness ultimately. Extra time prancing about on a field or worse being bullied daily is not going to be beneficial to a lot of children. But I actually think this situation will correct itself given time. It should not be used as a front to push these changes through. Everyone in a school year will have lived through the covid outbreak and therefore the exam results will still reflect relative ability as they do now. Children (assuming no other issues) will be fine if they are left alone to get back into their familiar routines.

From the position of being a semi professional PE dodger at secondary school, dropping PE would be a disaster.

If you saw the state of the vast majority of kids who came into school today, you'd be shocked. They are so pale, they can barely stand up or sit at a desk or hold their heads up properly, never mind walk 240 steps up a slight incline from the front gate without gasping for breath.

They're deconditioned to the extent of somebody who has been in hospital for three months. Or pensioners.

It's all very well saying parents should take them out running or make them do sit ups in their hallway, but some are disabled, some are poor, some are disinterested, some have been ill, some are at work. Dropping PE from the curriculum would take away the opportunity for them to regain some of their core fitness just when they need it most.

Our lot are going to start being built back up again now. Just so they can function as much as, say, a 48 year old fat bastard with inflammatory arthritis (me). At the moment, I'm fitter and stronger than they are. Which is completely ridiculous for a bunch of slim, supposedly healthy kids.

The UK already has longer days and shorter holidays than most other countries. I think my daughter would benefit from more free time to pursue her own interests, not less.

Yanbu

We have holidays booked
Children have worked hard despite lockdown

They don't want school holiday breaks stolen from them and would t trust teachers not to give them homework taking them into very late at night if school day was extended.
I'd want our children given a break - don't reduce their social time off- as it has been tough enough as it is to get through lockdown pandemic without them feeling they aren't allowed any time to socialise

@Ceit

The UK already has longer days and shorter holidays than most other countries. I think my daughter would benefit from more free time to pursue her own interests, not less.

Definitely.

All we’ve heard for months is how affected children’s mental health has been, the last thing they need is longer days at school and less school holidays. We will end up with a massive mental health crisis for our kids and swathes of school refusers if this is brought in.

Whilst private school children will continue to happily tick along nicely with their 8 week summers...

Well said

Probably not but I don't think it would hurt to sit back and look at the day lengths / terms / holidays that could work or that work well in other countries etc and see if there's a better way.

That might be longer days AND longer holidays for example (like at private schools in the UK).

Or we might decide that on balance it's best as it is. Who knows, but a review wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

NeverDropYourMoonCup What age are you working with? That sounds very worrying. My 4yo said they did lots of racing on their running track today so partly interested to see if teachers are checking fitness etc.

Problem with the debate is everyone has different circs and therefore preferences. Longer days would be fine for us as in wrap around care but even though I have to use holiday clubs I’d rather my children had the chance to do new sports/activities than more school. I’d like to see better provision re clubs and holiday activities so not just an option for better off parents.