Do you WANT longer school days and shorter school holidays?

[shadowlily]

YABU- yes I want schools to have longer school days and shorter holidays

YANBU- no I'd rather keep the hours/terms we have.

I keep seeing this is being discussed in the media today, do you think it's likely to happen? Personally I think kids would benefit more from the summer holiday and being able to catch up on the activities they've missed and socialisation with friends. They've been home schooled to keep up with the curriculum (for the most part! I know this might be a contentious statement for some!) but nothing has replaced the play dates, day trips, parties etc. they have missed.

What do you think?

The vote you have asked for would be more meaningful if you hadn’t disabled voting.

It complex , yes allow catch which is the one issue, allow structure and routine, allow socialisation - address list learning, the benefits are huge, logistically I agree there are issues, I appreciate that some families love the extended break and have the means to holiday and enjoy the full six weeks but for the poorer children this approach would be much more beneficial

Schools cannot solve all of society's ills by just being open longer and longer

Nor should they be expected too. Focus on parenting not the schools. If there is money to be found use it for the nhs, social workers, mental health etc.

But twelly it doesn't have to be school. Your own study you reference evidences lack of take up , especially at secondary, as a major barrier. The Economist article bases its findings on highly ideological US studies (where summer holidays are far longer) to evidence and fund Charter schools in Baltimore.

So because the government knows there would be poor take up of summer schools, especially at secondary age and in deprived communities, they will just lob weeks and hours in to school and look like they have done something.

True it doesn't have to be schools but right now there isn't a structure ready and right now we need to ensure we remedy the issue of the less well off children

And how is it paid for @twelly?

@Morgoth
If the summer holidays were shortened to 3-4 weeks, there simply wouldn’t be enough time for exams and tests to be marked or uni places to get sorted out in that period of time. It’s really tight for examiners to get it all finished as it is.

Neither A-levels nor GCSEs finish at the end of term - they finish a month beforehand. Nor do the results come out at the very end of the summer holidays (A-levels are 4 weeks in, GCSEs 5 weeks in). You’d probably need GCSE results to come out first, but it shouldn’t actually need to be much different to the current timings assuming you went with a 4 week holiday. Especially as I don’t think anyone suggested changing university terms (most university terms start 2 to 4 weeks after schools go back in the autumn).

So because the government knows there would be poor take up of summer schools, especially at secondary age and in deprived communities, they will just lob weeks and hours in to school and look like they have done something

This.

It's about being seen to do something. Nothing else.

@BungleandGeorge Several pages back now but 4.5 day weeks have been common in parts of Scotland since at least the 1980s. Children have a half day Weds or Fri and all teachers have their planning time at the same time, therefore not paying for cover teachers. The school day is slightly longer to account for the afternoon off. They are not getting away with less teaching and as I say it's been that way for decades.

RE primary children spending the afternoon doing sports, teaching good quality PE is actually quite challenging and needs excellent behaviour management skills. There are lots of excellent specialist providers of this but equally lots of companies that use inexperienced 18 year olds who in all honesty don't provide great quality provision. Also, it's not that uncommon to have a couple of reception children who fall asleep in the afternoons - can you imagine if the school day were longer?! Even lower KS2 children are pretty useless by about 2pm.

True it doesn't have to be schools but right now there isn't a structure ready

It’s almost as if sure start funding, sure start children’s centres, home start, cooking classes, parenting classes, youth clubs and everything else that has been cut were needed after all! Who knew!? Crazy!

yanbu

I think we do need a radical rethink of how school goes - I like they have chunks of time summer easter and christmas but we make it difficult and expensive for parents to have families and sort childcare in general weeks and also for holidays. But we need to balance that with how kids are taught and also teacher times and requirements - so they can't teach 9 to 5 so we need to look at how that extra time at school could be done and used - and maybe even paid for??? the people could have the choice of attending or not for extra hours. We are also failing alot of children in terms of the support for them, dealing with bullying, dealing with teacher stress and so on so lots of factors to consider

I will be furious if they change it. My child needs the summer off and I need him to be off then so we can visit relatives, have fun outings as a family without stressing about homework and go on holiday. It’s especially important this year as it’s been crap for everyone. I do think kids need the time off for their mental health. Longer days would also be crap as he’d struggle to fit in homework as well as the commuting time without exhausting himself or doing away with family time altogether. Also he wouldn’t have a chance to pursue any extracurricular interests/clubs etc. And reorganising the school year is just stupid, there’s a reason why it is the way it is and it suits the rhythm of most peoples lives.

YANBU- I need those six weeks

I wonder if all the countries with much longer holidays than ours are busy talking about cutting them now?

we make it difficult and expensive for parents to have families and sort childcare in general weeks and also for holidays

The holidays will be just as expensive and with more people chasing fewer holidays.

Take it those who want longer days have never taught yr 9,10 or 11 after 2 on a Thursday or Friday afternoon then?

Once upon a time, you could survive by reading a book or doing some kind of 'revision' activity using a3 and colouring. Bit more difficult when every lesson is high octane a packed full of initiatives.

As others have said, the uptake for Summer lessons would be low . The Government is aware of this but they just want to say that they have done something to assist pupils

Want to keep it as it is

The people who propose this (in government) must think the kids have done nothing this year. They've had enough crap to deal with with trying to do schoolwork online and with parents who are trying to work and aren't trained to give them what they need. In this house the kids have been told what to do and when to do it and keep quiet now and no I need the laptop, can you do that later etc and yet they work on. They need to play/exercise and just breathe!!

@SoupDragon

government-funded

From the magic money tree

our poor kids are going to be paying off the covid debt so we may as well chuck in more schooling and extra stress

@twelly

It complex , yes allow catch which is the one issue, allow structure and routine, allow socialisation - address list learning, the benefits are huge, logistically I agree there are issues, I appreciate that some families love the extended break and have the means to holiday and enjoy the full six weeks but for the poorer children this approach would be much more beneficial

How about we offer something for poor disadvantaged students?

Wait - a lot of state secondaries already do that.

HarryLimeFoxtrot

But teachers do a lot of the marking in the holidays. If they are working, they are not marking. That is quite a problem.

@Ilovemaisie

Longer school days only if the afternoon stuff is non academic and not compulsory. Infact I would like the school day to start about 8 am rather than 9 and finish about 2. Then those that do need some extra academic help could have extra lessons after school but still be home by say 4pm and still have time to do activities like Guides or scouts. More extra curricular activities could be offered (but not compulsory). After-school care should be free at primary age. All secondary schools stay open until about 5 pm so those that wish to do homework at school can. As for holidays. I like the system we have. I wouldn't want a shorter summer holiday. I also don't like it when different parts of the country have their holiday dates at different times. It's really annoying because it means families often can't get together during the school holidays (and God forbid they ask for term time off so a family can actually spend time together). Infact I know people who have children in different schools who have different half term dates. Ridiculous !! (Also burn all uniforms, completely scrap SATS and bring back coursework for GCSE....)

I also don't like it when different parts of the country have their holiday dates at different times.

You seem to confusing schools with childcare! TGhey're your children, they're your responsibility.
Actually if different parts of the country have Summer holidays starting at different times it could work in parents' favour, the prices would be more equitable, maybe driving to a different airport would save a lot of money, that was our experience when we lived in Germany.

@Lampzade

As others have said, the uptake for Summer lessons would be low . The Government is aware of this but they just want to say that they have done something to assist pupils

If the Government are providing extra help in the Summer break and parents can't be bothered to take advantage of it, whose fault is that? Parents need to take some responsibility as well as the Government.

I hate it when people talk about ‘poor children’ with no idea of how they might like to enjoy their holiday from school like everyone else.