Triple lock remains

[triplelock]

Name changed as I understand this probably won't be a popular opinion.

AIBU to think it's not exactly fair for the working population to have their tax thresholds frozen for 4 years while pensions get to keep their triple lock?

I understand some pensioners struggle on the state pension alone. But a lot of families also struggle on minimum wage.

but as long as people like you fall for the divide and rule tactic instead of focussing blame in the right place, not much will change.

Yes, there's certainly a lot of division and ageist bile against pensioners on this thread, much based on a complete, if not wilful, misunderstanding of pensions and benefits.

@MrsPear

The average pensioner was born in the 1940s. That was 80 years ago. They are what are called the golden generation. I am sick of the fact that receive billions yearly despite their wealth. Children live in poverty despite working parents while the average pensioner in the south east lives in a million pound home, final salary pension scheme, state pension, pay zero council tax, zero travel costs, reduced utilities (British gas in my last bill had a leaflet attached explaining how being retired equals a special tariff / Thames water published the same) zero dental costs, zero optician bills and zero medicine costs. Until recently they didn’t even have to pay for tv. I would love someone to explain why the average is so bloody poor? Every concession and benefit should be means tested and linked to the receipt of pension credit. If you are so called poor then you get help but hand outs based purely on age is ridiculous.

That’s utterly ridiculous.

Leave aside the inaccuracy about house values, the fact that many pensioners haven’t any occupational pension and those that do aren’t necessarily on a final salary scheme ....

where on earth did you get the idea from that pensioners don’t pay Council Tax?

@Kendodd

Children living in poverty is not the fault of pensioners, but as long as people like you fall for the divide and rule tactic instead of focussing blame in the right place, not much will change. True. It is the fault of government, we live in a democracy, we voted these people into power, it is OUR fault children live in poverty (including pensioners fault). We voted for child poverty and we can choose not to vote for it if we want. Unfortunately for poor children, mostly we vote to keep (and deepen) their poverty.

I bloody didn't vote for this shower, but yes, you are right.

the average pensioner in the south east lives in a million pound home, final salary pension scheme, state pension, pay zero council tax, zero travel costs, reduced utilities (British gas in my last bill had a leaflet attached explaining how being retired equals a special tariff / Thames water published the same) zero dental costs, zero optician bills and zero medicine costs

What rubbish!! Please check your facts - I do get free bus travel but nothing else applies. Free prescriptions are available to anyone with different health conditions (thyroid, heart etc) - I qualified for this in my 40s. Taking away your rent/mortgage - do you live on £1k a month?

@Billandben444

the average pensioner in the south east lives in a million pound home, final salary pension scheme, state pension, pay zero council tax, zero travel costs, reduced utilities (British gas in my last bill had a leaflet attached explaining how being retired equals a special tariff / Thames water published the same) zero dental costs, zero optician bills and zero medicine costs

What rubbish!! Please check your facts - I do get free bus travel but nothing else applies. Free prescriptions are available to anyone with different health conditions (thyroid, heart etc) - I qualified for this in my 40s. Taking away your rent/mortgage - do you live on £1k a month?

Agree about pensioners being in the SE living in million pound houses is completely not right. I'm SE based and don't know a single pensioner in a house worth even over £500k.

As for your other comment I wish we had £1000 left!

After £1300 a month for rent on an average family home and £1000 in nursery fees in order to be able to work we have less than this. We then also have to factor in commuting cost at £100 each a month. Then clothes and food for our ever growing child. We are both on almost average salary jobs so not exactly low paid.

Its hard but I don't begrudge this, we both have jobs we find rewarding and decided to stay within 30 minutes of our families rather than move north. We are happy.

But it does wind me up when people say £1300 after housing (which is the average income of a single pensioner) or even £1000 is not enough to live off as a pensioner.

This isn't about taking money from anyone. It's about whether the triple lock, opposed to a standard % rise, is a fair use of funds when everyone else is taking a cut and the government can only afford to give nurses 1%

@adventurealice

By a striking coincidence, it appears from these figures that average net income is almost exactly the same for today’s retired generation as it is for today’s working generations

Even if that’s true younger people are more likely to have children and other dependents, be paying to commute, stuff like that. If you’re retired and sat on your bum watching countdown and riding the bus for free on your bus pass it doesn’t take a lot to keep going

Nice bit of ageism there.

Your disposable income will improve by £1,000 a month when your child starts school, OP. Your right about the nurses’ payrise, it’s a shame the government has given so much money to its mates, isn’t it?

@Alsohuman

If only my job also changed to 9-3pm when my child starts school If we could just make care homes, hospitals and supermarkets 9-3 Monday- Friday term time only for all the low paid keyworkers that tend to be women that'd be great.

There would definitely be some sort of saving, if we weren't planning to have number 2. But plan is to save the £500 saving once my daughter gets her 30 free term time hours. Then use that money to cover maternity leave before going back into £1000+ a month nursery fees for number 2 for 3 years.

Then once number 2 starts school we can see what's left after wrap around care costs to start trying to save for a deposit on a house so that at least we won't be trying to pay rent in retirement.

Piss off with your casual ageism, @adventurealice. My mum struggled on pensioner credit, worried about paying bills and stopping her house falling to bits. But that didn't stop her cooking every week for homeless people until the year before she died, as well as helping out neighbours who had a disabled child. One of my retired neighbours helps me out at times with various things to try and make my life easier.

I’m not unsympathetic @triplelock but you’re not the first generation to have the financial impact of small children.

There was no maternity leave and not much childcare available when I had mine and most women had no alternative other than to stop work until the kids started school. Believe me there was a lot of belt tightening.

A lot of those mums are now pensioners providing childcare for their grandchildren.

@Kendodd

Children living in poverty is not the fault of pensioners, but as long as people like you fall for the divide and rule tactic instead of focussing blame in the right place, not much will change. True. It is the fault of government, we live in a democracy, we voted these people into power, it is OUR fault children live in poverty (including pensioners fault). We voted for child poverty and we can choose not to vote for it if we want. Unfortunately for poor children, mostly we vote to keep (and deepen) their poverty.

Actually, we don't. Most people didn't even vote for the cunts in power - even of those who voted.

@lidoshuffle

the average pensioner in the south east lives in a million pound home, final salary pension scheme, state pension, pay zero council tax, zero travel costs, reduced utilities (British gas in my last bill had a leaflet attached explaining how being retired equals a special tariff / Thames water published the same) zero dental costs, zero optician bills and zero medicine costs. Until recently they didn’t even have to pay for tv.

Where do you get this nonsense from? Do you really believe the "average" (whatever that is) pensioner doesn't pay CT, travel, gets cheap utilities etc while living in a milion pound house?

Exactly. Utter bollocks.

@adventurealice

Oh sorry, what I really meant to say was that retired people generally have far more outgoings and responsibilities than young people and therefore of course they deserve a bigger income.

They also don't have the capacity to increase their income.

Oh sorry, what I really meant to say was that retired people generally have far more outgoings and responsibilities than young people and therefore of course they deserve a bigger income.

What do you mean by young people?

Retired people haven't been magic'd out of thin air into a life of unbelievable opulence where we seemingly get everything paid for us (according to some posters).

We have been through our years of struggle, bringing up families and with mortgage rates hitting 16%. If we have more disposable income now it's because we've saved into private pensions, even when times were very tough and it meant a second job, no holidays and frugal living for years.

We have been through our years of struggle, bringing up families and with mortgage rates hitting 16%. If we have more disposable income now it's because we've saved into private pensions, even when times were very tough and it meant a second job, no holidays and frugal living for years.

Yep absolutely nothing to do with rising house prices & better private pensions being available.

House prices have always risen overall - they are rising now. Private pensions weren't compulsory but people generally played the long game and paid up, doing without other things to afford it.

Yep if only the young would forgo the avocado & save up 🙄

Yep absolutely nothing to do with rising house prices & better private pensions being available

House prices have risen and fallen several times during the lifetimes of today’s pensioners. Many might have been in negative equity at some point. Lots of younger people have benefitted hugely from price rises in the last 20 years. Is that a bad thing too, or is it only old people who are bastards for having had the luck to buy/sell at the right time?

Occupational pensions (if that's what you mean, private pensions are something else entirely) - yes it's true that the terms and condition of these are not as good as they were, but it wasn't the pensioners who made that happen, it was the employers. Employees could have joined together to fight these changes, but younger people generally don't tend to be very unionised.

Also, look at tax rates in the past, they were far far higher than they are now. Today's pensioners actually paid a much larger percentage of their wages into the tax pot than today's working people.

@pinkearedcow

Also, look at tax rates in the past, they were far far higher than they are now. Today's pensioners actually paid a much larger percentage of their wages into the tax pot than today's working people.

And don't forget working pensioners have both their state and private pensions deducted £4£ from their tax free allowance, this is because the state pension is paid gross and that's the only way HMRC can collect the tax on it - having just reached pension age I don't know what my tax code is going to be but its entirely possible that my pensions will cancel out any tax free allowance and I will pay tax on all my wages.

I have no problem paying tax on my private pension after all I had tax relief when I paid into it. But it is a fact that if I was working age and my state pension was a working age top up benefit like UC I wouldn't lose my tax free allowance as UC is tax free.

Pensioners pay tax as well also they were one of the groups that didn’t receive any government help during lockdown. Oh I know it’s because their income didn’t change but like everyone else their expenses for gas and electricity went up, why is MN so intent on criticising the retired. We will all be old at some stage hopefully so leave them alone.

You know I don't begrudge pensions their wealth at all, I'm happy for them, infact don't we have one of the lowest state pensions in Europe? What does really piss me off though is the sense of entitlement and complete incomprehension that life is harder for the young today and that baby boomers were lucky to have had the easiest ride through life in human history. I know someone is going to pile in about 'worked hard all my life' bollocks, but so what, that doesn't make you special, everyone works hard and our young people will have to work even harder for less reward.

Typical example -
I have a friend, grew up in the home countries with one sibling in a nice semi in a nice area, parents both in professional jobs. Her mum stopped work for over ten years while she was little then went back part time. One income was fine and they could still go on holiday every year, mostly to Europe. Parents both retired at 60 with good pensions.

Her and her husband both have very similar professions jobs, two kids. The live in the south west because they couldn't afford the south east, in a nice house, not quite as nice as her parents, but still nice. She didn't stop working when kids were little because they couldn't have managed on one income. They do get to go on holiday every year, usually Europe. They have a nice life, just working more hours than the previous generation with a slightly worse house (worth half as much). Her parents income from their pensions is HIGHER than my friend and her husband's wages. They won't be retiring at 60 and won't have the same income despite working harder and longer.

baby boomers were lucky to have had the easiest ride through life in human history

Tell that to the communities which had the heart ripped out of them when all the jobs went in the Thatcher years. Tell that to the women and BAME people who were discriminated against. Tell that to the disabled who were locked away. Tell that to gay people whose sex lives were illegal until the 60s. Tell that to all the gay people who died of AIDS and to those who were beaten up, had their houses vandalised for the crime of being gay during the worst years of the epidemic. Tell that to the women who were raped by their husbands when such a thing was not a crime.

I could go on and on – no generation has ever had it easy, the challenges are different for each.