To feel guilty about this?

[Blobbydobbydobb]

I don't do Mum guilt generally. I've always worked since having DC, always FT because I worked so far from home that I'd have to finish at 1 to be back for school pick up, and so on. I never struggled with returning to work, or felt sad for DC being in childcare 8-6 or sometimes 7-7 each day, it was what it was and I just got on with it. Don't get me wrong, I did feel a bit sad about missing some school events, I never had the luxury to WFH or flexibly pretty much until the last year or so, so anything school related I had to take a day's annual leave.

But there's one thing I still feel hugely guilty about, is the fact my DC didn't get into grammar school. I did very well academically, I have an Oxbridge degree (despite apparently not looking the type ) and professional qualifications. DC was never tutored because I believed the school that 'tutoring wasn't necessary'. DC failed by 1 mark. Plenty of kids with lower scores made successful appeals with the school's backing. However the head at my DC's school hated me and refused to endorse an appeal, stating they never supported any which simply wasn't true. For example, in the year below DC, a child who failed by about 10 points but whose parent was a school governor/ active PTA member was supported.

This was all over a decade ago and I try not to dwell but every so often I'm reminded, like today a colleague was saying their niece had failed by a similarly narrow margin, but that colleague as a professional has every confidence that the detailed appeal they are drafting will be successful etc etc.

And it made me feel guilty all over again. Guilty for not making sure DC was tutored (every other kid in their class who got in was), guilty for not doing a better job of the appeal - if my colleague thinks an appeal is a slam dunk for her then it should have been for me. I'm also angry about it too, my DC ended up with a really substandard education because of that single mark - we're in an area where almost no one outside of the grammars goes to uni, such is the level of education and aspiration at non selectives.

I know I need to let it go, and generally I have, but I can't help that nagging feeling of guilt and that I should have done better...AIBU?

I think you are being harsh on yourself. A few thoughts:

The person needing to achieve the marks for grammar school was DD, not you. There is a limit to how much you can help - I say this as the mum of two 19 yo DS.
Even if you get into grammar it's not the be all and end all of things - I didn't get into grammar, I left school with few qualifications, but then did an access course then a degree course in computer science then and MBA and MSc - to be honest just going to grammar or not doesn't make your break you and your career.
If someone "just makes it into grammar" they can struggle - sometimes it's better not to struggle but be higher up in the non-grammar.
What you live school with doesn't define your life - unless you let it.

How did your dc do at school in the end?

Grammar schools are not the be all and end all. Plenty of comps are just as good if not better. Children that require extensive tutoring to get into grammar often struggle when they’re there. I didn’t go to grammar. All my friends didn’t either. We all did very well at school and went on to succeed!
Don’t worry about it.

DC did pretty averagely in the end, they were top of the class in primary, and for the first couple of years in secondary but completely lost interest, found school boring when being taught by endless supply teachers. Didn't reach their potential or pass all their GCSEs due to poor teaching, never went to uni. Has no career aspirations or ideas. Grammar school would have been a much better, far more supported and structured environment for them and I genuinely believe they would have got far more out of it than going to a school where if you didn't want to do homework you just didn't bother without fear of sanction, likewise not turning up for lessons.

My colleague thinks the appeal is easy, has every confidence that her skills will get her niece a place, the implication I guess is that I have less skills because my appeal didn't succeed - even though the main reason for that was the school's attitude.

I cannot relate to this. Academic achievement is not the be all and end all. Kids want time and attention from their parents and to feel loved. To have that early on means they have a secure base and can weather what life throws at them. A strong bond and attachment is key.

Sorry I don't get your point - are you saying that I've not failed my kid because of not doing a better job of the appeal, but that I've failed them because I had to work fulltime?

You haven't failed
Honestly I know a lot of children who scraped through and were miserable
Don't dwell on the past, celebrate who they are and that you did your best for them at that time
Working FT is irrelevant, lots of us had to do it

I know lots of people work FT, although not many I know have had to work quite such long hours. But I was responding to the suggestion that kids want time from their parent. It's quite difficult to give lots of time when you're out 12 hours a day.

Unfortunately I can't shake this feeling of guilt that if I had done better, my DC wouldn't have ended up with a second rate education.

Are you sure that your DC did actually end up with a second rate education? What did the OFSTED report say about the school? Where did the school sit in the league tables?

From reading your post it seems you have a very negative attitude towards mainstream state education and I wonder how much that rubbed off on your DC and whether that had an impact on their motivation and self belief. If your DC believed they were receiving a second rate education, then surely they were expecting to fail right from the get-go? I’m very much hoping I’m wrong and that you encouraged your DC to believe that they could still achieve highly despite not attending a grammar school (many, many young people do)

This is why I don’t believe in grammar schools by the way. It creates a perceived tier system at the age of 11, which has an impact on how students perceive themselves and others, and can be so so negative for those who don’t meet the grade.

The thing is even if they had got into grammar school the same might have happened - they might not have engaged, lost interest or realised their interests laid outside academic/school etc. Hypotheticals go both ways. There’s just no way of knowing.

I agree with pp. he might have also lost interest at grammar school, for a start it's unlikely that he would have been top of his class, he may even have struggled.

@Blobbydobbydobb

DC did pretty averagely in the end, they were top of the class in primary, and for the first couple of years in secondary but completely lost interest, found school boring when being taught by endless supply teachers. Didn't reach their potential or pass all their GCSEs due to poor teaching, never went to uni. Has no career aspirations or ideas. Grammar school would have been a much better, far more supported and structured environment for them and I genuinely believe they would have got far more out of it than going to a school where if you didn't want to do homework you just didn't bother without fear of sanction, likewise not turning up for lessons.

Perhaps your attitude towards state education rubbed off on your child and they thought they were wasting their time, or perhaps they just weren’t interested in studying.

A state education doesn’t mean endless supply teachers or poor teaching. It doesn’t mean everybody in it gives up. I went to a state school in an extremely under privileged part of the country and yes I think I would have done better at A levels if I had been to a better school. But it didn’t leave me bereft of career ideas or aspirations and I went to university.

I don’t think you should blame yourself and I don’t think you should blame the school, maybe this is just who your child is and their interests lie elsewhere.

I tutor kids for 11+ it's a big mistake because they then struggle and need tutoring all the way through and are bottom of the class which has long term self esteem issues
I myself missed the exam points but passed the exam again at 12 + but chose to stay at my comp because it was better for me in a few ways

How does your done feel about it?
Why did the head hate you so much they would do that to a child ??

It doesn’t sound like your child has / had the right attitude to success. They were obviously quite bright if they were one mark short on the grammar with no tuition - yet they didn’t make the effort in their education. What makes you think they would have succeeded at the grammar? If they had brains and a good attitude they should have done ok at the comp.

No guarantee they would have done better at the grammar
Lots of kids I know got burn out or stressed with the pressure

I disagree. I went to a very “ rough” school but still got to uni. I think it’s much more on the attitude of the child.

What are they doing with themselves now? Are they happy?

Academic success isn’t the only kind. It isn’t the only kind of intelligence either.

My daughter is 5. She’s very bright in some areas, less so in others. Or perhaps slightly lazy. Hard to tell when so young. Academic pressure and achievement is not all she will be. If she never attended university, that’s fine. If she does, also fine. As long I know I have supported her as best I could, then I will feel no guilt.

I’ll just feel mum guilt over everything else instead if the last 5 years are anything to go by! Such is life.

The school was poor in terms of league tables, all the non grammars are here. I went to a similarly poor quality school myself and basically taught myself several of my subjects because the teaching wasn't up to scratch. I wanted my DC to have a better experience - to get the opportunity to study Mandarin or Latin; the school DC went to only offered 1 foreign language, which less than 20 children opted to do for GCSE.

I don't know if DC would have done better at grammar. I don't think they would have done worse, but at least they would have had the opportunity.

But opportunities don't mean anything if someone doesn't take them?

I think I would be looking at why your child doesn't have any ambition now... not feeling guilt over things that happened when they were 11.

They're working, albeit in a no prospects job earning 17k (house prices here are 350+k for a 2 bed flat). Happy enough apart from the fact they have no money and no idea what route to take to earn more.

I saw a similar path with my contemporaries at secondary school. If nothing is expected of you by the school, no targets set, no consequence to skipping classes etc, it's easy to become apathetic and stop bothering, to coast along. The only reason I didn't was because I was desperate to escape poverty and go to university.

I totally get the working full time mum guilt. Mine were in wrap around care from 8-7 from very young, like you said, it is what it is.

What are your DC’s doing now? This happened 10 years ago, how did the rest of their education play out? Like PPs said, perhaps your attitude towards comprehensives may have rubbed off on them, or perhaps they just weren’t as academically gifted as you. Either way, beating yourself up over something so far in the past and totally out of your hands isn’t helping anyone.

Drive to excel comes from a desire to succeed, not from a tutor for the 11+.

Don’t be so hard on yourself.

Sorry just seen your update.
But still, all you can do now is support and encourage them to explore all options. Not everyone is career ambitious, and that’s ok.