To feel guilty about this?

[Blobbydobbydobb]

I don't do Mum guilt generally. I've always worked since having DC, always FT because I worked so far from home that I'd have to finish at 1 to be back for school pick up, and so on. I never struggled with returning to work, or felt sad for DC being in childcare 8-6 or sometimes 7-7 each day, it was what it was and I just got on with it. Don't get me wrong, I did feel a bit sad about missing some school events, I never had the luxury to WFH or flexibly pretty much until the last year or so, so anything school related I had to take a day's annual leave.

But there's one thing I still feel hugely guilty about, is the fact my DC didn't get into grammar school. I did very well academically, I have an Oxbridge degree (despite apparently not looking the type ) and professional qualifications. DC was never tutored because I believed the school that 'tutoring wasn't necessary'. DC failed by 1 mark. Plenty of kids with lower scores made successful appeals with the school's backing. However the head at my DC's school hated me and refused to endorse an appeal, stating they never supported any which simply wasn't true. For example, in the year below DC, a child who failed by about 10 points but whose parent was a school governor/ active PTA member was supported.

This was all over a decade ago and I try not to dwell but every so often I'm reminded, like today a colleague was saying their niece had failed by a similarly narrow margin, but that colleague as a professional has every confidence that the detailed appeal they are drafting will be successful etc etc.

And it made me feel guilty all over again. Guilty for not making sure DC was tutored (every other kid in their class who got in was), guilty for not doing a better job of the appeal - if my colleague thinks an appeal is a slam dunk for her then it should have been for me. I'm also angry about it too, my DC ended up with a really substandard education because of that single mark - we're in an area where almost no one outside of the grammars goes to uni, such is the level of education and aspiration at non selectives.

I know I need to let it go, and generally I have, but I can't help that nagging feeling of guilt and that I should have done better...AIBU?

They’re still pretty young, in the great scheme of things, especially in terms of the span of their working life. Priorities can change, a vocation can present itself.

I went to university, got a good degree in a respected subject. But my path to obvious success has yet to be realised and I’m 32. I know it’s easy to get hung up on the what if’s. I’ve mostly accepted that everyone gets where they need to be in their own time.

Your children will too. You sound like a really nice mum, who has been supportive throughout their lives. You didn’t do anything wrong and really, neither did they.

There is no point dwelling on something you can’t change/happened so long ago.

We don’t have grammar schools in Wales. I went to one of the “best” high schools. Did well at GCSE, then fell out with my parents and moved out in the lower sixth. A levels suffered due to having to work to pay my rent and bills. I worked amongst full time from age 15, got a steady job at 18 and bought a house (without help) at 19.

Never went to uni. Worked hard, got promoted, got professional qualifications. Held some high profile roles in my 20s. Travelled lots. Had fun. Now early 40s, a year or 2 off paying the mortgage off on our big family home. Have a lovely DD, a job that is hard work but which I get real job satisfaction from and opportunities to make a real difference. I’m part way through an OU degree that I’m doing for fun.

Life is what you make it. Let this guilt go.

@Blobbydobbydobb - where is the DC father in all this?
It seems that your education, Oxbridge degree and long hours at work hasn't brought you the life it should.

However you can't go backwards in life. Whilst school and peer group plays a huge role, what role did your DC's parents play? Did they have high expectations of the DC's and try and intervene when their achievements and aspirations were low?

I don't know if my questions would make you feel more guilty but I think you are feeling guilty about the wrong things .........

Your DC are adult now. If they don't like their lot in life, they can change. Even go back and get some qualifications and perhaps you can help support them whilst they do it. It's never too late

@Blobbydobbydobb I know a child who did get in on appeal and struggled with the workload and expectation. They were one of the lowest in class and knew it because there is enormous pressure in Grammar to succeed. Their confidence took a huge hit. They got average grades in GCSEs when they left but didn't want to go to Uni as had had enough of education at that point.

You can't predict how your DC would have got on in the grammar system, so you need to let your guilt go. If your DC wants to, education is still open to them should they wish to improve academically, or gain qualifications for whatever training they need in order to be successful. But it's got to be what they want.

I think you've just got mum guilt here.

I think placing the blame on the school is pointless and misdirected.

Smart, ambitious children do well wherever they go to school (I went to a ROUGH school with children from a real mix of backgrounds, yet lots of us have gone on to achieve academic and professional success). Obviously a more supportive learning environment would be ideal but it still won't hold most children back if they want to do well in exams. Perhaps your child just wasn't suited to traditional academic "success" and will find their path a different way?

Unless you left them to their own devices a lot at secondary and weren't around to encourage them and make sure they were keeping up then I wouldn't feel guilty.

I get what you're saying but this isn't any sort of final chapter for your dc. I'm in my 40s now with 2 ds' and have a different perspective on my school years now - for various reasons I ballsed it up (I was at an ok comp in a non-grammar school area and had opportunities but wasted them and coasted, skipped classes and didn't go to uni). I am the middle child of 2 high achieving siblings and for years I accepted full responsibility for my poor teenage decisions but now I have a lot of sympathy for teenage me and what I had to contend with at the time and being totally honest I now feel I was failed by people in my life. No resentment, it's just how it was.

Looking back I wish someone had given me a year or two for me to get onto an even keel personally, find what I loved in life and then encouraged and took an interest and supported me to pursue it. Being a couple of years behind the standard route is nothing in the grand scheme of things and your working life (all being well) is a long one so it is more than worth putting the effort in to get it right. Working a couple of years in crappy jobs and feeling like you fall well below your potential is not a waste of time it's a sharpener, it can focus the mind and help realise opportunities as they arise later.

Don't despair about what has been wasted or lost just hang back ready to encourage them when the time is right. And make them know they can achieve and are capable in the meantime.

Just read my post back and want to clarify that when I said I think I was failed by people in my life I'm not trying to suggest you are failing your dc - quite the opposite, I was just trying to give a bit of background to my view now. I often think about what I wished had happened at the time - essentially that someone had stepped in at the stage your dc is now with a bit of adult wisdom and mentoring and told me I hadn't blown it and it wasn't too late.

Don't kick yourself or classify schooling in any kind of hierarchy , each school is right for different children. I got into one of those school's and only came out with A, B's and C's if I had gone to a regular school with less stress I would have done far greater.

I would feel as you do, OP. It feels like a massive sacrifice, long hours etc, while missing out on one of the key rewards we look for as parents - great education.

It sounds like tutoring would have nudged your DC over the edge, into grammar. Did you not consider moving to a better catchment when grammar didn’t work out?

I feel I should have done better for DC. My colleague clearly considers the appeals process a walk in the park, she will because of our profession navigate it with ease, etc. Yet I didn't.

Someone asked earlier why the head didn't like me - because I worked ft. She told me on more than one occasion she didn't consider it appropriate for mother's to work in ft employment with primary age DC or for children to be in wraparound care for 10-12 hours a day. So her judgment was of my lifestyle.

I did consider moving, I applied for a number of jobs in an area with good schools but was unsuccessful. Commuting to those areas was not possible. So we ended up stuck where we are. There are some very good schools closer to home, but with tiny catchments where all houses are 1m+.

DCs father is not involved and never has been for reasons I'd rather not go into. Do I think that my degree and sacrifices haven't brought me the life it should? Not really. It didn't bring me an Oxbridge educated spouse and a string of kiss at private school, but that wasn't my goal. I grew up in a council house. We didn't have a car, never went on holiday, I was always fed and loved but I wanted financial security and stability for me and my DC and I am lucky enough to have that. My only regret is that educationally I wasn't able to do better for DC.

I get it op and I think a lot of pp are referencing their own experiences rather than yours. In your child's case, the school was rubbish, he did have supply teachers and became disaffected. It's v hard as a working sp. I feel bad that I'm not sitting with my DS every night and going back over the lessons he's been doing in school as a keyworker kid so that they are done properly, but I just don't have the energy, time or headspace. Maybe you could or couldn't have done things differently but you are where you are so what's important is what's next. How do you help them focus on a goal, an interest, a plan etc? As others have said this is not the end point. Work from here and use your talents and skills to help them at this point.

@Blobbydobbydobb

I sort of get what you are saying and where you are coming from - i have stuff i still feel guilt or regrets. But it is important to let them go, really because this is counter productive.

The most difficult job as a parent - aside from parenting 😂😝 - is to foster a love of learning for learning itself and that goes with independance.

It is not too late, it is never too late. Instead of focusing on this guilt, you d be better off redirecting your energy to what next.
How can you help, engage, foster your son energy to build his future?

I know many people will say he is an adult, it is his responsibilities etc. But at the end of the day, he is still your son and right now he is lost or hasnt find himself / his spark yet.
He needs your guidance, your support, your help and your love to achieve HIS success whatever that is. Not yours.

I think you need to help him and that probably starts by holding his hand. Lots of places will take apprentice where they can evolve knowing trade: joiners, builders, plumbers, electricians, etc. Those are great careers for the grafters and very much in demand. Inside the M25 you pay good money for those trades.

Or he can still go to university now by doing an access course.

What does he wants is the question that needs to be addressed.

Your guilt based in an assumption that your Dad's circumstances would have been totally different, ie. meeting your aspirations had they gone to grammar school.

You absurdly cannot do that. Like you I worked long hours and DC's went to the local below average comprehensive. No grammar school here.

My eldest got 3As at A levels and for into a top apprenticeship. My second got 2 A*A and got Iino Cambridge. The youngest did ok at GCSEs, is expected to do okish at A levels but is adamant he doesn't want to go.ro Uni nor apply to a competitive apprenticeship. He wants to start working FT, doesn't really know what he wants to do long term and just needs more time to work things out. He just isn't as ambitious as the others and was never competitive as them. Grammar school would have made no difference to their outcome.

Just trust your DD's ambitions and support her with what she wants to do.

Her or him!

You can’t change it now. You don’t know what difference it would have made in the end.

Could you encourage him/help him financially now to go to night school to retake GCSEs/ study for a career?

DC is definitely not into manual work, we are both left handed and quite awkward/ unco-ordinated.

I couldn't care less that DC didn't go to uni, or doesn't have professional qualifications, my main aim was that they grow up happy (they are) and financially secure (ditto). I just wanted them to have the best educational opportunities and I feel in that respect I have let them down.

I didn't have friends as a child, I spent my time indoors reading. Whereas DC was always with friends, whether at their houses, or online. Maybe I should have done more to try and foster a love of learning. DC has a really good brain, retains information easily. But that isn't obvious from their educational performance.

I have tried with careers but it's difficult. Accountancy was considered, but dismissed after some work experience. Teaching was something DC considered (primary rather than secondary) but one of their GCSE grades is too low. DC is 22 this year and feels it's too late to start a 4 or more year course, especially as they are not even certain it is what they want to do. We have contacts in the Police and Fire Service but neither appeals. Likewise the IT industry, it's not something they are passionate about. DC is quite bored and frustrated in their present role (basic office admin) but doesn't know what else to do. It's difficult for me to assist as I only ever wanted to do the job I do now (which is basically the only job I've ever done).

I went to an awful school. Our results were so poor it got closed after I left. I was shoved into a class of 15 and we were made to do everything a year early to boost each years results! Almost all of us went to university or into a training programme for accountancy/finance etc. Everyone is doing well in their careers and financially.

Going to a state school doesn't automatically mean they won't go to uni or fail. I definitely had a poorer education than my grammar-educated friends, but guess who coped much better at University when you were left to get on with it and not coddled?

I think you’re placing alot of importance on a single decision and extrapolating, and over-emphasising, the impact it’s had.

You say your DC are happy and financially secure, what more do you want for them? Even if their educational achievements had been better, the end result of wanting them to be happy and financially secure remains the same.

I didn't have friends as a child, I spent my time indoors reading. Whereas DC was always with friends, whether at their houses, or online. Maybe I should have done more to try and foster a love of learning. DC has a really good brain, retains information easily. But that isn't obvious from their educational performance.

Not having friends as a child isn't a positive and I'm unsure why you're mentioning that as part of being academically successful?

This is all very strange as you say your son is happy, financially secure and hasn't mentioned any of this to you expressing his disappointment.

If you bring all this up to him / suggest adult learning then it's akin to saying you feel disappointed in how his life has turned out! Even if you frame it as 'it' being your fault, you're saying something has gone so writing it need correcting. But it hasn't.

This is very much a you issue and not a him issue, please don't project it onto your adult son who is absolutely fine.

Be pleased he had fun, had friends, learned social skills, found his own path - be proud of those things instead of regretting things that didn't happen. Let it go and stop beating yourself up, it's absolutely pointless and a bit mean to be honest as it does feel like you're disappointed in him via yourself.

Well their financial security is down to me - they couldn't really afford to live independently on their own income as even a room in a shared house round here is £600 per month. I think every child should get a good education; I didn't have one pre 16, and I wanted better for my child.

It's very common for youndg adults, especially boys it would seem not to know what they want to do. That's not down to their education but just a struggle to find what they are interested in that they can turn into a career.

A lot if the time, it then comes down to findig the right environment to develop I Teresa rather than the other way around.

@Blobbydobbydobb

Well their financial security is down to me - they couldn't really afford to live independently on their own income as even a room in a shared house round here is £600 per month. I think every child should get a good education; I didn't have one pre 16, and I wanted better for my child.

You're being so dismissive of anything other than academic achievement, saying he had friends and had fun then lamenting you didn't make him choose studying over those things. Aren't you glad he had a happy childhood and is (yes, thanks to you) financially secure?

It's done now. Make peace with it yourself and don't suggest to him he does some FE if he's happy as he is. You're projecting your own perceived failures onto him which is incredibly unfair if you make him aware you're disappointed in how his life has turned out. That's essentially what you would be saying but in different words.

You're preoccupied with something that cannot be changed and that he himself feels no bitterness about or regrets over by the sounds of it.

It was a decade ago, the appeals process could well have changed. Although I'm surprised you didn't put him in for the 12+ a year later for entry into year 8 if it was important to you both. Was that not a thing in your area? Or was he happy in his new school in year 7?
But one thing sticks out about your OP -- of course the school would have told you that you didn't need a tutor, they can't advise you on things like that because what would that say about them as a school? It sounds like you and DS weren't that worried about getting him into the grammar school but now he's finished school, you're second-guessing that and wondering how things might have been different?
He could well have gone down exactly the same path at a grammar school.
Your colleague's decision now doesn't invalidate your decision at the time.

I think your DC is doing fine. They are sociable and working/earning and building a decent foundation for themselves. No they're not earning alot but they're gaining experience and transferable skills.

There's no guarantees DC would've wanted to pursuit higher education had they got into the grammar school. Some students get sick of jumping through exam hoops and prescribed learning. At 22 there's alot of time ahead to study at a uni if they fancy.

12+ isn't a thing here so no option to do that unfortunately.

I didn't grow up in a grammar school area; DC teachers through primary told me that DC was highly able and would sail through grammar tests. I would expect the school to say if specialist tutoring was required, I believe most do now, times have clearly moved on. I wanted DC to go to grammar and expected given teacher assurances that DC was entirely capable. I was hugely disappointed at the time, as was DC, being in 'top group' in their primary class and the 1 child who their peers expected to pass. This isn't me simply being upset years later, I can assure you I was bloody upset then too.

I try not to dwell upon it, and make the best of things, but when I hear people pontificating as to how easy it is to win an appeal, when we didn't win ours, it reminds me of all those past feelings of guilt.

My DC doesn't consider university to be an option due to their age. They are bored in their current role, maybe they would be in the same role and still bored if they went to grammar. At least then I'd know they would have had the best possible education.