To think the high street is beyond rescue?

[Greyrootszerohoots]

So many changes to the way we shop, it seems like throwing money away to try rescue businesses with models that are outdated.

I wonder if more should be put into physical business that can’t exist online - food/drink and boutique/experiential shopping.

I’d love to see high streets that are pedestrianised green spaces with outdoor seating and places to gather. It could be so much more pleasant than the current badly maintained row of charity/discount/seasonal shops that so many town centres have become.

Of course, I have no solution to the huge job losses we’d face

I think there will be more demand for boutique shops after this. I’m sure many people have missed spending a day pottering around the shops. Local town centres could see more footfall if people travel less into cities for jobs.

Eg. I would commute into the city centre daily for work, so any bits of shopping I had to do or going out for a drink would be done there. Now with wfh we’ve used our local town centre that’s walking distance much more (when open).

It’ll come down to money at the end of the day, the government won’t have the money to re-design town centres into green spaces, they might do one or two but I can’t see the public funds being available for any widespread change.

What will be difficult is making sure empty town centres don’t become full of anti social behaviour, maybe business rates will be low for a long time to help encourage businesses to stay.

There are few places around as you describe in the UK with parking but they tend to be a bit out the way and not that easily accessible by public transport. One I'm thinking of has the outlet / seconds type shops.
Our high street will lose Dorothy Perkins and Peacocks and probably a few others by the time they can reopen. Parking close by is going up again so people tend to drive to the supermarket for free parking and everything under one roof. It is sad , but councils want the revenue from cars and it puts people off going to shop locally.

I think that the government would implement an online sales tax that would increase the costs of shopping online. That might encourage shoppers to go to physical shops.

For many things, i have often found going to physical shops to be cheaper as I used to have a zone 1-3 tfl travel card when i was going into the office daily so didn't spend any extra money going to the shops. Its just not an option now so I buy everything online.

I think it will be ok.

Different as in some shops close, and others open. Whether to the same number as before is debatable.

High Streets can be sociable places. One of the many things people have been missing over the last year.

Online shopping has been a lifeline for many this past year so another tax in it won't help at all.
Plus not everyone has a car and they are trying to discourage car usage as well.
Not sure what the answers are. I go to my local high street but I'm aware I only have an hour to get round because of parking and you can't buy everything from there either.

Why would people go to these green spaces though? They only go there now to shop. I find buying online convenient at the moment but unsatisfactory. Don’t like to buy anything perfumed without smelling it, don’t like to buy anything fabric without feeling it...I’ll switch from online shopping to high street for the majority of products as soon as I can.

I'm having to travel 40 miles into my nearest, small city today for my covid jab and I cannot bloody wait to go for a Potter. I mean I can't buy anything but still. I dont think I realised I missed doing it until I couldn't...... I'm hoping we see an upsurge in retail. Its possible of people back off from online shopping after having to do that pretty much all year.

They'd go to the parks/gardens as part of a day out to the city centre @cardibach. Shop a bit, lunch in the park, let the children play (or just rest in the shade in summer). That's how it works in Europe anyway. Just gives more space for people to spread out into and opportunities to do more than just shop and leave. And obviously good for air pollution, diffusing urban heat islands, suds schemes etc

I am a former shopping addict who stopped mindless shopping a few years back. I still liked the odd splurge before covid but now I am completely out of the habit. Apart from perfume and make up/skincare, I no longer have the urge to buy lots. I can't see my fascination with shopping ever returning. My idea of bliss was going to Oxford Street once a month when I was really into it, and having a huge spend up. Now I couldn't think of anything worse. If they added an online tax I think it would cut my spending down to buying exactly what I needed, I still wouldn't go shopping. The only thing that would tempt me would be if I was on holiday somewhere with lovely independent shops. The average High Street is dismal, full of the same chains, with endless polyester, so unless that changes I think it is on its last legs.

@the80sweregreat I don't have a car which is why it makes no difference whether i shop at a supermarket or in central london. the tube fare to get into central london is slightly more expensive but there is a lot more to do there- i used to go walking by the canals, regents park, go to chinatown. I also used to do day trips to the home counties. I think pretty town centres (places like marlow and guildford and St Albans) will thrive post lockdown because I don't really go there for the shopping, i go there to enjoy it (but end up buying stuff).

All of that isn't possible with covid but I will definitely be resuming it as well as my two together railcard when lockdown ends.

^this

High Streets were full of polyester. It’s why l stopped going.

I no longer feel the need to spend money or look around the shops when they open.

What we've seen during gentrification in London is developers/landlords raising rents sky high so that independent shops have to close, after decades in the community. Then soulless chains move in. The government hasn't stepped in to stop it.

Now the chains are in trouble and people want the government to help them? How is that fair?

I'd like to see support for indy shops, food and health related businesses and local services. It's probably not going to happen though.

But the rents can’t stay up if the chains have gone out of business and offices are closing due to increased homeworking. So those greedy landlords might have to lower their rents.

@onlychildandhamster

I think that the government would implement an online sales tax that would increase the costs of shopping online. That might encourage shoppers to go to physical shops.

For many things, i have often found going to physical shops to be cheaper as I used to have a zone 1-3 tfl travel card when i was going into the office daily so didn't spend any extra money going to the shops. Its just not an option now so I buy everything online.

This would be very unpopular, and rightly so: you're penalising people who work nights or difficult shifts; people who are disabled and aren't physically able to get to shops; people who have mental illnesses that make going to shops impossible; people who don't have vehicles who can't do a massive food shop/buy furniture from IKEA/buy anything they can't carry home on the bus; people with sensory issues who are people who live very rurally and can't pop out for a new pair of shoes without it being an enormous issue...

The death of the High Street is sad, but penalising people who have had their lives made much easier by online shopping isn't the way to go.

For me i no longer see shopping as something i go and do in the way i did when i was younger. Going into town on a Saturday afternoon to go shopping was a routine. Now i only shop on my way to and from places and when i am out doing something else.

So i might pop into a shop and buy something when i have an hour to kill in a town or at a gift shop after visiting somewhere great. My basic shopping i do pulling into an out of town place on my way back from somewhere exciting.

If you want me to start going back into town centres then you need to have something to make me want to go there and strangely it is not more shops. It arts/music/history events, it great places to eat and socialize and i might shop whilst i am in the area.

Otherwise i will never go into our town centre again and if it collapses i won't miss it.

My home in England is a university town. There still is investment. A new cinema has been built, plenty of student housing has been approved. We have lots of independent restaurants and a couple of new ones have just opened. Hopefully, things will return to "normal" in the next few years.

I definitely think there will be more demand for independent shops of all kinds. I think people are sick of supermarkets and the same old shop chains dominating every town centre. I also hate pedestrianisation as I feel it kills towns. We need to open them up to hustle and bustle, traffic and people! I'd like to see a return to independent butchers, bakers, greengrocers, ironmongers and 'quirky' shops, and fewer coffee shops, charity shops, phone shops, Poundland type shops and fast food outlets, which encourage people to eat whilst walking along the road - ugh!!

We live near a small town which only had a couple of large chains, they have both now closed down and they were the only reason I would ever go into town occasionally if I really needed something. Now I only shop online and haven't been there for 12 months as there is nothing at all that I need there.

I can't see the small businesses in the town surviving at all now.

I quite like supermarkets... I don’t really want to trudge round lots of little different food shops tbh.

I did most of my shopping online before the pandemic and most of the people round here must have done the same because we've lost all of our chain clothes shops now - Peacocks, DP, Bon Marche, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, etc. No surprise there, they were always empty. Some of the chain restaurants have gone too, but independents are hanging on. Specialist and boutique type shops doing ok.

Empty units often become cafes or restaurants. Every time a new one appears there's a flurry of people complaining on the local facebook groups that there's nowhere to shop and "we don't need another bloody cafe, why can't we have a Primark?". (NB our town is tiny. We will never, ever have a Primark)

Thing is, the places to eat and drink are always busy. On a Saturday they're heaving in a way the clothes shops never were. The main high street had a revamp a few years ago with more pedestrianised areas and benches, it is a destination but for socialising rather than shopping.

So no, I don't think town centres are beyond saving but the types of businesses may well change.

Another vote for independent shops and fewer chains.
The last thing our town needs is more places to eat or coffee shops.
Every other shop is a cafe/food place of some description - and, with the exception of a couple of places, these tend to be chains too.

Why does anyone care?

If people used it, it wouldn't have the problems. But they don't, so it does

My closest town has lost debenhams, topshop and paperchase. We don't even have any shops where I live so this a bit of a blow to me as those are actually my 3 favourite shops to mooch around in. I would now have to travel much further to be able to shop in similar shops.

I think this could be the making of smaller high streets where the shop premises aren't owned by massive property co's. Our town has a few chain stores, but even those are mostly smaller ones, like Sea Salt and Crew Clothing. We also have some great independents.

The demise of the likes of Arcadia and contraction of demand for premises may make it possible for independents and smaller chains to be able to afford the rents, increasing the diversity of retail and losing the identikit thing, where all big towns seem to look pretty much the same.

Fuck knows what'll happen to big shopping centres and department store premises though. They're generally owned by huge property companies, and it remains to be seen if they will accept lower rents or prefer to leave premises empty. I doubt it, frankly.

I hate online shopping. I'm a funny shape (top heavy, long-waisted) and really have to try things on. Even my feet are weird, narrow with a high instep, and one half a size bigger than the other .

And how fabric hangs and feels is important to me. I've sent some stuff back without trying it on because I hated the feel of the fabric as soon as I opened the bag. I don't buy cosmetics online because you can't tell the colour accurately. Even things like household stuff can be disappointing in quality.

For some things, the "browse factor" is all important. I can go into a decent bookshop and come out £100 lighter, that never happens when I look for books online. I need to read the blurb on the back, the first couple of pages, then a few pages at random to see if it grabs me.

I can't wait for shops to reopen. I'll be outside my local Waterstones when they unlock the doors for the first time in months.