To think the high street is beyond rescue?

[Greyrootszerohoots]

So many changes to the way we shop, it seems like throwing money away to try rescue businesses with models that are outdated.

I wonder if more should be put into physical business that can’t exist online - food/drink and boutique/experiential shopping.

I’d love to see high streets that are pedestrianised green spaces with outdoor seating and places to gather. It could be so much more pleasant than the current badly maintained row of charity/discount/seasonal shops that so many town centres have become.

Of course, I have no solution to the huge job losses we’d face

But wasn’t the busy-ness just due to lockdown fatigue though and people being desperate to get out?

I think the High Street in the size and range it was even five years ago is beyond rescue. I do think that something worth having and retaining is possible.

I think one of the difficulties is getting to a smaller high street, with some of the properties converted to housing or other uses.

Most of the issue of the high street is landlords. What was a lovely street of interesting independent shops near us led to the landlords putting up the rents - all that's there now are restaurants and estate agents.

A few years ago the de Walden estate wanted to gentrify Marylebone which they did by only letting interesting independent and small chain businesses rent the smaller units from them on Marylebone High Street - they already had a medium sized Waitrose - it used to be great although sadly has now become rather homogenised even pre COVID. However, the experiment worked.

@RedGoldAndGreene

There are lots of businesses rumoured to leave our local shopping centre (5 miles away) because they can't afford the higher rents imposed by the landlords. In an ideal world there would be smaller businesses who can take advantage of customers who need in person customer service eg fitted kids shoes but I suspect that the units will be empty themselves and the country will be forced to find a new hobby for the weekend that isn't shopping. I think that the HS has been in trouble for a while. For example M&S (whose customers slew older) preferring to push people online or to click and collect.

Interesting point about, for example, childrens shoes. The busiest local shop, is in a small village, and is a privately owned shoe shop. They pride themselves on personal service, and it pays off. People travel miles to go there. When they are not fitting children, they do a roaring trade in old folk! This also brings in customers to the other small local shops and coffee shops. There definitely needs to be a change in mindset, smaller specialist shops, customer service, coffee shops, private eateries. Fewer large chains. Here's hoping.

I suspect that what is going to happen is smaller have-to-have-physical-presence shops are going to be slowly subsumed into the larger supermarket spaces that are going to be less busy with the rise in online grocery and C+C shopping. (Obviously with the crossover between such spaces and online lockers being a natural fit).

Garden centres might also attract the more crafty niche retailers.

But I wouldn't get my hopes up. Last time I was looking for something in the shoe department it was a wasted 2 weekends trailing around local high streets to look at exactly the same shit at exactly the same price - despite me carrying the old shoes I wanted replacing with me.

In the end (you can see where this is going) it was a carefully placed online order which 10 years later are pretty much as good as new.

I can also talk about my coat. DWs coat. DWs shoes. Cast iron pans. Various kitchen knick-knacks, DIY materials, and garden tools.

All ordered online.

Our local butchers are all shit too. I can see us looking into ordering meat online.

I don't think you are wrong. However I am sad about that. I do wonder what will become of our city centres. I love a mooch around the shops, but I do it so rarely, I am part of the problem.

@Countrysidebloos

I don't think you are wrong. However I am sad about that. I do wonder what will become of our city centres. I love a mooch around the shops, but I do it so rarely, I am part of the problem.

City centres have been around millennia. They aren't going anywhere.

There's hardly anything left in our small city centre. Literally rows of empty shops. Now they're in the process of demolishing the bus station which will mean 18 months of disruption (on top of the rebuilding of a bridge on one of the busiest routes into the city centre - when that road is open)

It's going to need to start completely from scratch by the time everything is done. At least the druggies will have a nice shiny new bus station to hang around, though.

Pedestrianised is fine, but if there isn't parking nearby (with a covered walkway to the main shopping district) I won't go. I'll go where there is parking and no drenched/freezing walks.

@PicsInRed

Pedestrianised is fine, but if there isn't parking nearby (with a covered walkway to the main shopping district) I won't go. I'll go where there is parking and no drenched/freezing walks.

Over the past 20 years the mantra has been ... public transport/bikes all the way. Shrinking Blue Badge parking (while increasing the Blue Badge holders) so that it can be a 50:50 if you can park.

That drops to 0% at Touchwood where the BB parking can only be accessed via the regular parking so when there's a queue for that and you have to move on (as police won't let you queue) you just go home knowing the BB parking was completely deserted.

That's another place where you have to be lucky to get into a lift if you have a wheelchair. DW is lucky, as I can go up/down a floor and get in and then when the lift gets to her floor get out to let her in. Others no so lucky.

I'll be honest that the "High Street" and in-person shopping haven't really done much to make me want to spaff a few billion at them in the vain hope "something" will happen. All that money is going to do is in end up in more Tory Cronies pockets and maybe part fund a poster campaign to "save the high street".

Agree OP. Who in their right mind wants to walk around in the rain going from shop to shop in town centers. Online if you need it and can’t wait, out of town mall if you want it and want to make it an afternoon out.
High streets should be a place of leisure and hospitality. Small Bricks and mortar shops are way too ‘computer says no’ anyway. Even the larger ones don’t stock the range, and have poor service.

City centres have been around millennia. They aren't going anywhere.

Our local city centre (about 45 minutes from here) is dead. It's 90% charity, vape and discount stores, plus a McDonald's, a Greggs and a Subway.

It's been slowly dying for years and COVID has just accelerated it. Three big chains didn't re-open after the first lockdown in June and several more have closed permanently since.

Cost of rent is one reason, high parking/public transport costs are another, but the main one is there's a big out-of-town shopping centre with free parking, several fast food places, two big budget supermarkets, a Tesco megastore, coffee shops, a cinema, a gym, a swimming pool etc.

There's just no need to go into the centre anymore, especially when it costs money before you've even got out of the car.

The average UK high street is entirely made up of bookmakers, phone shops, charity shops, pawnbrokers, cafés and banks. All of these will survive post-covid, and so the high street will remain the same.

Everything else such as Debenhams, PC World, Argos, Top Shop, New Look, Next, B&M and so on have all emigrated to retail parks where it is essential to have a car. But it doesn't matter to us who can't drive does it as we're only a small minority of the footfall sarcasm

And yet...... our village has recently organised for a baker, a fish man, and a butcher to come to the village green once a week. It was supposed to be just for the village, but has attracted people from a wide local area, and these guys are now selling out in a couple of hours. You can now pre-order for pick up! The pull is local supplier, centrally located, something a bit different, and with free parking. They are also pretty expensive, but people are prepared to pay for convenience, fresh, all in one place. We are looking for a vegetable man too. So, effectively we have our own weekly market. If the same was done in a small town, with FREE PARKING, surely people would make the effort.

I'd love to see a shift for the big brand chains to a mix of online and out of town designated shopping areas (malls, retail parks).

Then the high street can offer an alternative experience - independent shops, who cannot run an online fulfillment service.

The big chains can pay a service charge for use of the retail parks and malls which include free shuttle buses from the local towns and villages.

And yet...... our village

There is a world of difference between the only village high street for 10 miles, and an urban city centre High Street that's about 2 miles from the next one. I have at least 6 "High Streets" within 15 minutes drive of me here in SW Brum.

Then the high street can offer an alternative experience - independent shops, who cannot run an online fulfillment service.

That sounds a tad seedy

The independent shops I used to use were for home brewing, and they were the first to go online. Which given their location and lack of parking was a Godsend.

Amazon have announced the roll out of their "high street" stores. I'm very impressed by this addition to the high street:

www.ladbible.com/technology/technology-amazon-to-launch-its-first-physical-store-in-the-uk-this-week-20210228

@Melange99

The likes of Bon Marche, DP, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, Peacocks have cropped up in this thread. All examples of lazy retailers who had messy, dated shops and completely failed to engage with the customer. Plus the ubiquitous polyester offerings. I struggle for summer clothes for really hot weather because of big chest, so I look for better quality t-shirts so they don't cling. There were all of those branches in my High Street (apart from EWM), all closed now. The one time I went in Bon Marche in desperation to find non-clingy t-shirts I tried one on in a changing room that could have been a monk's cell it was so devoid of anything. It was a concrete block, something you imagine in a prison. Bizarre. Why would you make that a place to part with your hard earned cash.

I 100% agree with this and it matches my experience. Greedy landlords are definitely a thing and I hate them BUT... I have heard that the rent they charge has to do with their insurance and it's at least partially some kind of clause that's like a perpetual cycle HOWEVER that is definitely not the issue with some. I have seen the other side of the coin because I know someone that owned a small chain of cafes and the rent was too high for it to be viable. She told the landlord that that was the case and they offered to lower it by half (proves they can in some circumstances) and the cafe owner said it was too late for that kind of rescue. Sad.

If I go into town by car, I have to park and pay a fortune for the privilege and then walk for about 10mins before I even GET to the shops. Then they are all spread out over a very large steep hill with narrow footpaths crammed full of people who are too busy chatting or looking at their phone to look where they are walking. The cost of the bus is more than the car parking!!

We have a large number of independents. Great, except they are I tiny premises with minimal stock and no online presence so I won’t know until I’ve parked, paid, and traipsed al the the way up the hill if they’ve even have what I want.

We have some chain stores as well, which I would happily click and collect from, but seems like a false economy to pay for parking to collect from the shop when I could pay the same (or nothing) to have it delivered to my door.

I would still C&C though if I could ‘make a day of it’ by also having a meal while I’m there, but most of the restaurants are extortionately priced ‘special occasion only’ type of places. There are smaller cafes and eateries but they are in premises so small you can never get a table/seat.

So I stick to online shopping for the most part, where I can find what I want, know it’s in stock, buy it and then have it delivered to me.

I dread the times I have to go into town for things like kids shoes.

We also need to stop this hatred of the car
Errr... climate change, pollution... rings a bell?

But until city centres are more car friendly most people won’t go unfortunately. So there’s arguments to both sides. I live a massive city. The car parks are just minuscule. And the bus costs more than the car park.

Car friendly where i live means car must be parked maximum 1 minute walk from the shops. This is what the traders all say.

How does climate change work with these big indoor malls such as the Metro centre or Bluewater? Will they have to close as you can only get to them by car ? There are a few buses for the locals , but many more drive to them.
Will they all end up being demolished over time?
Or just become click and collect only?
They were built at a time when nobody really cared about the planet and helped to ruin the high street as well.