Suspected School Place Fraud

[SchoolFraudDilemma]

This is more a WWYD.

If you suspected someone had fraudulently applied for a secondary school place, would you report it?

There is a very outside chance of an EHCP but it is unlikely.

I suspect that they've used a different address to their actual address when applying.

They live approx 6 miles from the school. According to the local authority data, the furthest place offered was 1.2m from the school.

Would you report it or just mind your own business?

@SchoolFraudDilemma check your council's admissions website and brochure to see if they encourage reporting. Ours does, and they're hot on investigating. The admissions brochure gives an email address and phone number to contact and says information will be treated in strict confidence.

How do people sleep at night having reported poor family, when they do not know anything about their personal circumstances. Too much time on your hands.

@MadamMaltesers

How do people sleep at night having reported poor family, when they do not know anything about their personal circumstances. Too much time on your hands.

Maybe they think about the poor family that potentially missed out on a place because of the fraud.

@KateBlush

I can't believe the number of posters saying MYOB. Do you advocate getting away with whatever you can in every other area of life? What a depressing world we live in. These people aren't busy bodies. They're decent people who play by the system and expect a fair outcome. I'd say report. If there's no case to answer, no harm is done.

I’m in this camp. While you can’t know everyone’s circumstances, if the parent has provided evidence of these and has a got a place through that, then it can be easily checked and there will be no comeback. If it’s fraud, then they deserve any consequences. While I can understand parents wanting to prioritise their children’s education, it comes at the cost of another child who better meets the admission criteria. Ideally all schools would be equal.

If they have done nothing wrong then they have nothing to worry about

@Crosstrainer

Two cases round here:

1. The local estate agent rented a flat next to the local outstanding rated primary school. Tight knit local community, small school - so everyone knew the kid who didn’t get in as a result. Apparently everyone knew what she’d done and nobody spoke to her at the school gates/child not asked to parties etc. Can’t have been a great experience for her child.

1. Someone reported the “using grandparents’ address” ruse anonymously. That child then had the offer of the place withdrawn and another one wasn’t immediately granted. A real local split of opinion (as per this thread) about the rights and wrongs of it, but can’t have been great for the child concerned who presumably went right to the bottom of the list.

So what only ONE child from the area didn't get in? Really? Find it hard to believe that the school has the exact number of places to match the number of kids born that year.

I’ve namechanged for this but a regular poster. As an admissions officer in a LA where this happens regularly I advise you to please report it. Yesterday we had so many disappointed parents and every year, despite numerous checks there are parents who play the system and fraudulently get a place leaving other eligible children to go to other schools. We are discreet with when we receive a report, do further checks and always follow them up sensitively. I’ve learnt over the years that a parent who has nothing to hide doesn’t usually have any objection to further questions and are very understanding if they’re asked to provide any further evidence. It’s better to be looked into now than in the first few weeks of the term and the school place withdrawn causing a lot of upset to the child. This does happen! We don’t tell the person who reported of the outcome or the family concerned who reported it but we do investigate every one we receive.

@MadamMaltesers

How do people sleep at night having reported poor family, when they do not know anything about their personal circumstances. Too much time on your hands.

We lost a lot of sleep when our daughter was robbed of her school place by liars!!

@spongedog

please report. You, or rather one, may not agree with the admission criteria, but at least they are clearly disclosed.

I knew of people locally who moved literally to the next street, rented a house, to get into catchment area (for primary school). House rental was £3500 per calendar month. That isnt rent that a normal family can afford, whilst still paying mortgage on their (lovely) house in the next street. I didnt know what to say, so I just dropped contact as quickly as possible. This person still has local friends and a local business. I dont use their business - their lack of integrity really offends me. But clearly I am a wierdo on this site as it shouldnt be my business. (There was no direct impact to my family). #shocking

It’s obviously very common, l know families who did exactly this for Eleanor Palmer in Camden and Yerbury. The latest wheeze is for Mummy and Daddy to split. Dad rents across the road from the school and a 50/50 arrangement is enacted, once the kid is safely in the classroom the parents repair the relationship and Dad retreats back into the family home. I don’t think that there is much that can be done about it.

In fact , l know Camden council are actively investigating and door knocking to check now so people have to be really really sneaky and devious.

I was on the other end of this and was reported by someone for this type of fraud (I was innocent btw). When I applied for my daughters secondary place we didn't live in the catchment area, we were 4 miles away. We were however waiting for a new build to be completed which is two streets from the school. When I applied, I explained this on the application form, and gave the developers details so it could be checked.

I have no idea who reported me, as we didn't know anyone who'd applied for the school, and the friends we did have were all in our old catchment area, but I got a call not long after allocation day asking me to reconfirm all of the details and when we would be moving in which was June as she started school in the September. They said someone had reported that we weren't local and apologised but they had to run checks.

Ultimately I wasn't bothered as I had the right proofs and I knew it was an oversubscribed school so places would be in demand. If this family has the proof then there wont be an issue for them if someone reported them as the LA will run the checks and make sure they are entitled. School placement fraud is on the up unfortunately

What a very unpleasant system we have in the UK.

Isn't it a shame that there's such a huge gulf between state schools that this sort of thing happens. If the schools were all pretty much the same, it wouldn't.

I don't really know the answer to your dilemma OP, but the fact is state education in this country is utterly broken (that's the conclusion I've come to) and I think it absolutely suits the powers that be (who are all sending their kids privately) to have parents at each others throats about school places and the illusion of choice they provide (which is totally fake) rather than questioning why we have some of the largest class sizes and most decrepit buildings in Europe. And why provision can be so unequal from one locality to another.

Those who do best out of the state school system are those who are richer - who can afford to move in catchment. People who don't have as much financial clout have far fewer options. It's not fair to start so of all the unequal things in the world I'd say unless you're directly involved this is not a priority. If it were me, unless it was affecting my child, I'd leave it to the LA to sort out, that's their job.

The latest wheeze is for Mummy and Daddy to split. Dad rents across the road from the school and a 50/50 arrangement is enacted, once the kid is safely in the classroom the parents repair the relationship and Dad retreats back into the family home.

Well this is a good example - only those who can afford to rent somewhere else for a while can do this. The system is broken and inherently unfair. Ultimately this fails all children.

@IloveJKRowling

What a very unpleasant system we have in the UK.

Isn't it a shame that there's such a huge gulf between state schools that this sort of thing happens. If the schools were all pretty much the same, it wouldn't.

I don't really know the answer to your dilemma OP, but the fact is state education in this country is utterly broken (that's the conclusion I've come to) and I think it absolutely suits the powers that be (who are all sending their kids privately) to have parents at each others throats about school places and the illusion of choice they provide (which is totally fake) rather than questioning why we have some of the largest class sizes and most decrepit buildings in Europe. And why provision can be so unequal from one locality to another.

Those who do best out of the state school system are those who are richer - who can afford to move in catchment. People who don't have as much financial clout have far fewer options. It's not fair to start so of all the unequal things in the world I'd say unless you're directly involved this is not a priority. If it were me, unless it was affecting my child, I'd leave it to the LA to sort out, that's their job.

Bravo ! What a brilliantly put post. I agree with it all.

One of my friends has a studio flat in the catchment area of a very popular high school. It came up for rental just before the applications for schools last year. T he agent had 3 families offer a years rental in advance so they could use the address to get into the school .
She contacted the school as she was uncomfortable with the deception and told them about the approaches (no names or anything) mentioned the addresses of all 6 studios in the block, and rented to someone who actually wanted to live there.
School were very interested.

@KateBlush

I can't believe the number of posters saying MYOB. Do you advocate getting away with whatever you can in every other area of life? What a depressing world we live in. These people aren't busy bodies. They're decent people who play by the system and expect a fair outcome. I'd say report. If there's no case to answer, no harm is done.

Very different reporting someone where you know they are being fraudulent, very different when you are basing it on no evidence of why they have a place.

Thing is, even if the parents have been fraudulent, there's a child who's probably been told where they're going, are really excited and who may now have their place pulled away. A disappointment they will remember their whole lives, probably.

I blame the LAs and the government. A child loses either way, and if the system was fairer parents wouldn't be going to such extreme lengths, would they?

If it were me, I would report it. Most LAs are better than they used to be at catching fraudulent applications, but they don't catch all of them.

If they got in due to being in a higher category (EHCP, ex-looked after child, etc.) the LA will know this and won't do anything.

If they got in through undetected fraud it should result in the place going to the child who should have got it.

@IloveJKRowling

Thing is, even if the parents have been fraudulent, there's a child who's probably been told where they're going, are really excited and who may now have their place pulled away. A disappointment they will remember their whole lives, probably.

I blame the LAs and the government. A child loses either way, and if the system was fairer parents wouldn't be going to such extreme lengths, would they?

The system is fair given that no school has an unlimited number of places. The problem is parents who think that what they perceive as their child's interests trump the needs of everyone else's child. I really don't see that the government or LAs are at fault. They don't force people to submit fraudulent applications.

Ive already replied above from a professional perspective but I’ve also been on the other side of this when my dd went to secondary. I was reported for getting into a much sought after faith school who take from a wide catchment do their own admissions with very strict criteria and evidence requirements. One of the primary mums reported me as she’d never seen us in church, she’s been attending for the evidence for the school place and was offered one. She was quite vocal to me face to face as well and didn’t nt believe that we attended a church in the next parish with my family. She didn’t that I worked in admissions and colleagues investigated nfa. I didn’t mind, I knew I had been honest so had nothing to worry about. On a separate point, you have no idea how many adopted/previously looked after children there are whose parents don’t want to tell friends/school gate friends their circumstances. In my LA these children get priority and we quite often get calls about fraud and they are these children who are entitled to the place.

They could ensure schools within a locale are more similar with similar levels of SEN provision.

We have one secondary that looks like a Nazi concentration camp here where they use what look like WWII portacabins and are actually, physically falling apart (when we did the tour, the child showing us around said they do Maths in there) and no more than 6 miles down the road is a school with a brand new building.

No prizes for guessing where the richer people live.

The whole illusion of choice is a distraction from how state education is underfunded and unfair.

A child, a real live child, will be disappointed and upset if this is a fraudulent application that the LA have failed in their duty to identify ahead of time.

What a tragedy, what a shit system that this could happen.

@Hoppinggreen

If they have done nothing wrong then they have nothing to worry about

Yes exactly and they may even welcome the investigation so they can avoid speculation.

Whilst I think everyone can agree that renting somewhere else for a year is unfair to wider society and to the children who'll miss out as a result, who said our society is fair - have you missed out on the million pound PPE contracts that have gone to ministers' mates?

And of all the unfairnesses in the world I have a lot more sympathy for parents who do this who think a particular school would ruin their child's life chances / introduce them to drugs etc.

When people say they're being unfair that's not strictly true because not doing everything you possibly can for your child is being unfair to your child, right? (see also Diane Abbott - believes in state education, sent her son to a private school).

And renting another house for a year is within the LA rules. As long as you have a residence in catchment you intend to live in, it's within the rules. The rules are not being broken in this instance. It's not illegal to rent one house and own another. It's not illegal to have one house empty. None of this is illegal. It is out of reach of some people but it's within the rules.

^It was fraudulent because they moved temporarily solely to get their first child into the school, knowing that all the others could follow on sibling places. After they'd done that for a year they moved back to their original house which they'd kept knowing they'd be moving back.

Some schools are better than others at uncovering this sort of fraud, but fraud it absolutely is^

There is no set time you have to live somewhere. The fraud is generally in not actually living there when you say you do, not renting somewhere and actually living there in order to get in the school. Living somewhere for a year or two whilst owning another house is much harder to prove that you did it just for the school place. Otherwise families who do move house a lot and don't own an house would never get a place.

@IloveJKRowling

Whilst I think everyone can agree that renting somewhere else for a year is unfair to wider society and to the children who'll miss out as a result, who said our society is fair - have you missed out on the million pound PPE contracts that have gone to ministers' mates?

And of all the unfairnesses in the world I have a lot more sympathy for parents who do this who think a particular school would ruin their child's life chances / introduce them to drugs etc.

When people say they're being unfair that's not strictly true because not doing everything you possibly can for your child is being unfair to your child, right? (see also Diane Abbott - believes in state education, sent her son to a private school).

And renting another house for a year is within the LA rules. As long as you have a residence in catchment you intend to live in, it's within the rules. The rules are not being broken in this instance. It's not illegal to rent one house and own another. It's not illegal to have one house empty. None of this is illegal. It is out of reach of some people but it's within the rules.

This may not be within the rules actually. In our area you're supposed to have severed connection with your old house or it will be the house used for calculating distance. I don't quite know what severing connection means but at the very least renting it out on a long term lease seems to be required.