Suspected School Place Fraud

[SchoolFraudDilemma]

This is more a WWYD.

If you suspected someone had fraudulently applied for a secondary school place, would you report it?

There is a very outside chance of an EHCP but it is unlikely.

I suspect that they've used a different address to their actual address when applying.

They live approx 6 miles from the school. According to the local authority data, the furthest place offered was 1.2m from the school.

Would you report it or just mind your own business?

A child not getting into the school that their parent wants them into isn’t a massive deal

Not for you maybe but it might be for them. You just don't know the circumstances. It could have far reaching effects. And in any case, why should a child miss out because someone lied?

I had the most satisfying moment of schadenfreude whilst talking to a woman who had cheated the system to get her first child in there (a boy) by moving to a £3,500 per month rental property for a year, while keeping her other house out of catchment, and moving back to it once the boy had got in

If they actually move in and live there then no fraud has been committed.

Those saying that if the child has an EHCP then they'd have known 2 weeks ago that they'd got a place, well this is true but the parents may not actually have told anyone at the time. My DS was awarded a place at a good local (slightly out of catchment) secondary on the basis of his EHCP. Of the 37 children in his primary class, 75% had applied to the same school, as the catchment school was a failing school. It didn't take a genius to work out that after catchment children, only those in priority groups, including those with siblings already there would get in. 7 DCs went from his class. Lots of appeals that year - all failed. Not surprisingly I didn't reveal at the school gate that my DS had already got a place in February whilst everyone else had a further 2 weeks of stress - it would have been tactless. I kept a fairly low profile after 1st March too!

I would check the school policy before you mention it if I was you. Some children are awarded places for pupil premium status. No one I know would have a clue that we receive it as I have always been discreet about it but that is why my child got awarded their place at Secondary school.

If they actually move in and live there then no fraud has been committed.

I don't think that's the case, is it, when they have kept their other family home? It's not like renting without having another property to go to.

@Graciebobcat

I had the most satisfying moment of schadenfreude whilst talking to a woman who had cheated the system to get her first child in there (a boy) by moving to a £3,500 per month rental property for a year, while keeping her other house out of catchment, and moving back to it once the boy had got in

If they actually move in and live there then no fraud has been committed.

According to our council, renting a 2nd property nearer a popular school whilst retaining another, is fraud.

I'd report. It wont take long for the school to find out if it was fraudulent or not. Im fed up of all this mind your own business comments. If its not fraud, no harm done to anyone. If it is then it has deprived someone else of the place that should have been theirs.

We paid a huge premium to buy a house very close to the school we wanted.
Totally legal,but I wouldn't feel I could report anyone who does whatever they do to get their DC in to the school they choose

The absolute red herring of parental choice/marketising education. We shouldn't be all hot and bothered about whether someone gamed the system, we should, rather be able to expect all our own and everyone's kids to get a great education in a good school.

As I said upthread, the truth will out. Most LAs are very hot on this now. You need to provide evidence of child and main carer residency before they begin.

I can't believe the number of posters saying MYOB. Do you advocate getting away with whatever you can in every other area of life? What a depressing world we live in. These people aren't busy bodies. They're decent people who play by the system and expect a fair outcome. I'd say report. If there's no case to answer, no harm is done.

Completely agree @KateBlush

Definitely double-check the admission policy, as some schools prioritise pupil premium kids, and to qualify for PP they just needed to have qualified for FSM at some point previously, doesn't need to be current.

I would report it though. If the family have nothing to worry about, no harm done.

I would report it.

@KateBlush the system is already rigged so that those that can afford a house in a good catchment buy one. Or send their kids to private school. These kids often already have advantages in life (engaged parents for one), therefore someone occasionally cheating the system doesn’t really bother me.

@Ihatemyseleffordoingthis has it right: we should be more concerned that not all children have equal access to a good standard of education

As predicted, the MYOB folk are out in force. I wouldn't be surprised if Mumsnet has it's fair share of admissions liars given how quick some are to argue that it's totally fine for children to lose out on their rightful school place because dishonest people have lied.

Reporting a concern is just that, reporting a concern. If the family have gained a place legitimately then there's no problem. If they have gained a place fraudulently then that place can go to the correct child.

@Graciebobcat

I had the most satisfying moment of schadenfreude whilst talking to a woman who had cheated the system to get her first child in there (a boy) by moving to a £3,500 per month rental property for a year, while keeping her other house out of catchment, and moving back to it once the boy had got in

If they actually move in and live there then no fraud has been committed.

It was fraudulent because they moved temporarily solely to get their first child into the school, knowing that all the others could follow on sibling places. After they'd done that for a year they moved back to their original house which they'd kept knowing they'd be moving back.

Some schools are better than others at uncovering this sort of fraud, but fraud it absolutely is.

@KateBlush

I can't believe the number of posters saying MYOB. Do you advocate getting away with whatever you can in every other area of life? What a depressing world we live in. These people aren't busy bodies. They're decent people who play by the system and expect a fair outcome. I'd say report. If there's no case to answer, no harm is done.

Well no, people who can afford to live in the catchment are not defined by them being decent people, but more by them being rich enough to be able to 'play the system' by buying their way into a decent state school. That hardly makes them paragons of virtue. Just affluent.

The problem is not caused by less affluent people trying to get the same advantage for their children as the kids of richer parents have, the problem is we have an education system where even in the state sector you buy the quality of education and school experience your kid gets. I understand this quite a British thing and many other European countries don't have this buying your way into a state school thing.

The whole system is shit. Blame the system not people trying to find a way through a shit system.

Two cases round here:

1. The local estate agent rented a flat next to the local outstanding rated primary school. Tight knit local community, small school - so everyone knew the kid who didn’t get in as a result. Apparently everyone knew what she’d done and nobody spoke to her at the school gates/child not asked to parties etc. Can’t have been a great experience for her child.

1. Someone reported the “using grandparents’ address” ruse anonymously. That child then had the offer of the place withdrawn and another one wasn’t immediately granted. A real local split of opinion (as per this thread) about the rights and wrongs of it, but can’t have been great for the child concerned who presumably went right to the bottom of the list.

If fraud took place, then someone was denied a place that was rightfully theirs and for that person's sake I think it is OK to report and the posters saying MYOB are wrong. The person whose business it is (the person whose rightful place was taken) does not have the facts at their disposal, OP does. MYOB is only appropriate if you don't have any more information than everyone else.

I would write to the LEA, just giving them the info of the correct address for the applicant in question. If there is an EHCP, or if the child is actually a LAC unbeknownst to the OP, then this address will match the address used on the application and no mistake was made, so no harm is done. If an incorrect address was used then there is still time for the place allocations to be re-jigged.

But don't vascillate OP, you have to act now because the sooner the incorrect allocation is put right, the better. Delay just means that someone (not the person at fault) is getting used to the idea of going to a less-preferable school, is exploring which friendships from their primary school will be continuing, making plans for travel etc. That person deserves to know the truth as soon as possible.

Hmm, I think I'd leave it. Just as I am someone who's child goes to a school (primary) outside of our catchment area. He got his place due to my medical condition & the fact his grandparents live in that area so if I am in hospital or am attending medical appointments it is easier for them to take him to school & collect him.

You don't always know the full background. If someone would have reported me even though I did provide all the correct information & also had to give medical evidence I would have been really annoyed & stressed out about it. Especially as my health around the time he started primary school really wasn't good.

@user1487194234

We paid a huge premium to buy a house very close to the school we wanted. Totally legal,but I wouldn't feel I could report anyone who does whatever they do to get their DC in to the school they choose

Quite. This is also gaming the system. Its not like you are part of a natural community going to your local community school. You just bought your way into a community (possibly displacing people who were are natural parts of the community, are in catchment, but still don't get a place as they can't afford to buy a house as close to the school the 'buying their way in' interlopers.

The system is the problem.

@Crosstrainer

Two cases round here:

1. The local estate agent rented a flat next to the local outstanding rated primary school. Tight knit local community, small school - so everyone knew the kid who didn’t get in as a result. Apparently everyone knew what she’d done and nobody spoke to her at the school gates/child not asked to parties etc. Can’t have been a great experience for her child.

1. Someone reported the “using grandparents’ address” ruse anonymously. That child then had the offer of the place withdrawn and another one wasn’t immediately granted. A real local split of opinion (as per this thread) about the rights and wrongs of it, but can’t have been great for the child concerned who presumably went right to the bottom of the list.

God the only thing that struck me from that post is that there are adults spiteful enough to punish a child by socially isolating her just to ' get at' the parents. That is utterly, utterly vile. What reprehensible people.

Not read through the thread but this is absolutely nothing to do with you op

If your child has additional needs but not an EHCP , you can apply under medical and social need during the normal application process , you have to submit supporting evidence as to why a particular school can support your child best over your other choices . This evidence is then considered and a decision made in time for offers day . We were lucky enough for our son to get a positive outcome when we applied using this criteria , when the tables are released showing the data including last place given etc there is a separate column showing how many students were given places under the exceptional medical/social criteria but I don't think they are included in the last place given distance figures iyswim . You can check an individual school/authority to see if they accept applications using this specific criteria online .

@Crosstrainer

Two cases round here:

1. The local estate agent rented a flat next to the local outstanding rated primary school. Tight knit local community, small school - so everyone knew the kid who didn’t get in as a result. Apparently everyone knew what she’d done and nobody spoke to her at the school gates/child not asked to parties etc. Can’t have been a great experience for her child.

1. Someone reported the “using grandparents’ address” ruse anonymously. That child then had the offer of the place withdrawn and another one wasn’t immediately granted. A real local split of opinion (as per this thread) about the rights and wrongs of it, but can’t have been great for the child concerned who presumably went right to the bottom of the list.

Wow the adults in your area sound completely vile. That poor child.