To ask Health care staff treating me if they've had their covid vaccine?

[BearEastie]

I am immunosuppressed. I've been vaccinated but they don't know how well it will work yet.

I would prefer to only be treated by staff who had been vaccinated, thus if they said no I would ask for limited contact or a swap in nursing etc.

Just read shocking statistics from the hospital I am due to go to next month for a two week stay and I am starting to freak out just a little bit.

I still can't believe that you plan to demand someone else treats you if someone declines to share their personal medical information with you.

How unreasonable for OP to not want to be treated by someone who hasn't been vaccinated against the disease that could easily kill her. Also ridiculously precious to consider whether or not someone is vaccinated to be too personal", especially when that person will know OP's actual personal medical information.

@FinallyHere

The vaccines have been proved to reduce transmission

I've seen this assertion, especially by the organisations responsible for development and manufacturing. I appreciate that it is very early days for properly peer reviewed studies.

People might not be used to these differences but I really don't think it is possible to have this proof yet. There may very likely be studies which indicate that it may be the case.

I haven't yet seen the evidence for the assertion above. Would be happy for anyone to provide that proof.

Articles in tabloid newspapers really don't carry much weight. I would be sorry if people were adjusting their behaviour based on information gleaned from newspapers rather than medical and scientific publications.

The telegraph is not a ‘tabloid’, it is quoting nhs sourced statistics. Perhaps you could supply some research to disprove this? Only if it’s up to your standards of peer reviewed scientific papers naturally.

@Belladonna12

Personally I don’t think individual patients have any right to ask vaccination status, that is between employer and employee. I wouldn’t share this, I’ve never been given a flu badge. So you may find that you are refusing treatment from a lot of staff even if they’ve been vaccinated!

Would you seriously refuse to reassure a patient who was anxious about whether or not you are vaccinated because they were immunocompromised? It wouldn't cross my mind to do that. I think it's quite selfish be so precious about your own privacy when the patient doesn't get much privacy from you and when they have very good reason to be nervous.

I would expect the trust treating this lady to assure her of their safety measures and would be very happy to comply with my employer. Some people don’t want to be treated by people who are certain colour, sexual orientation, appearance, qualifications, seniority, sex. All sorts of reasons and for that reason I’m afraid I think it’s wrong for individual staff to be put on the spot. What if the staff member is pregnant, immunosupressed, has allergies? I don’t expect people to divulge that to just anyone who asks and I’m not sharing my status because for others it may be contentious or difficult and it’s giving the green light that it’s acceptable. It is very acceptable to question the trust and ask about their risk assessments and safety measures and of course I would comply with any risk assessment and do everything I could to protect the patient.

www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/exclusive-fewer-black-and-filipino-nhs-staff-vaccinated-amid-hesitancy-concern/7029397.article

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n513

How unreasonable for OP to not want to be treated by someone who hasn't been vaccinated against the disease that could easily kill her.hmm Also ridiculously precious to consider whether or not someone is vaccinated to be too personal", especially when that person will know OP's actual personal medical information.
I 100% support the OP in asking about risk assessments regarding immunocompromised patients and what measures in place and having relevant discussions, which might include asking whether there is a policy on vaccinations in this area.
I don't support expecting anyone to divulge their medical history or demand that only those who are willing to share their medical history with patients. Staff could be asymptomatic and between testing, having the vaccine doesn't mean they cannot carry it. Either the series of measures of the ward are acceptable or they aren't.
It's not precious to point out that a HCP is not a patient. Just because a HCP sees a patient's record, doesn't mean HCP have to share their medical information with patients.

I would expect the trust treating this lady to assure her of their safety measures and would be very happy to comply with my employer. Some people don’t want to be treated by people who are certain colour, sexual orientation, appearance, qualifications, seniority, sex. All sorts of reasons and for that reason I’m afraid I think it’s wrong for individual staff to be put on the spot. What if the staff member is pregnant, immunosupressed, has allergies?

Not wanting to be treated with someone who could potentially have a virus that could kill you if you are immunocompromised is hardly on a par with not wanting to be treated by someone because of their race. Being immunocompromised or having allergies is not a reason to not be vaccinated. Being pregnant is that I would expect somebody in that situation to be redeployed.

I don’t expect people to divulge that to just anyone who asks and I’m not sharing my status because for others it may be contentious or difficult and it’s giving the green light that it’s acceptable.

And yet if you are treating a patient you would expect to know whether they had been vaccinated. I think it's very acceptable for a patient who is nervous about getting the virus because they are immunocompromised to ask. I wouldn't mind being asked at all as I actually care about patients and would want to reassure them.

It wouldn't bother me as a healthcare professional, but I am based in the community so maybe attitudes would be less flexible in a hospital.

@LolaSmiles

How unreasonable for OP to not want to be treated by someone who hasn't been vaccinated against the disease that could easily kill her.hmm Also ridiculously precious to consider whether or not someone is vaccinated to be too personal", especially when that person will know OP's actual personal medical information. I 100% support the OP in asking about risk assessments regarding immunocompromised patients and what measures in place and having relevant discussions, which might include asking whether there is a policy on vaccinations in this area. I don't support expecting anyone to divulge their medical history or demand that only those who are willing to share their medical history with patients. Staff could be asymptomatic and between testing, having the vaccine doesn't mean they cannot carry it. Either the series of measures of the ward are acceptable or they aren't. It's not precious to point out that a HCP is not a patient. Just because a HCP sees a patient's record, doesn't mean HCP have to share their medical information with patients.

You are not divulging your medical history by telling a patient whether or not you are vaccinated. Don't be ridiculous.

You are not divulging your medical history by telling a patient whether or not you are vaccinated. Don't be ridiculous.
It's their private medical information. If they want to share it then that is up to them. If they don't wish to share then that is entirely their right.

The hospital has to draw up risk assessments and put in appropriate measures that consider staff and patients. They will have been signed off and should be followed and patients are well within their rights to expect the measures in them. If they are concerned about anything then they are well within their right to question and get clarification.
That doesn't make it right to expect HCP to share their medical information.

I am immunosuppressed and had a hospital appointment last week. It didn't occur to me to think about this. However, I had put the appointment off until 3 weeks + after I'd had the vaccine

Actually patients are totally at liberty to withhold their medical history although it is often not in their best interests. This is classed as highly sensitive information and needs consent to share.
People who make requests for certain staff are adamant of them and you could also say that insisting on treatment only with a senior consultant is a safety issue. It’s not reasonable though, and it’s not reasonable to ask individual staff for their medical details if the trust have a policy for effective infection control. You can still be infectious post vaccine, other patients could be infectious, staff might have contraindications there is a lot to consider. The approach of putting staff on the spot will not achieve what the op wants.

BungleandGeorge
You put it better than me, and good point on the patient data. When I've called 111 they have asked for consent to view my record and my consent to share with GP.

There's ways to check for safety and risk without putting members of staff on the spot about their medical details.

Flip side of the coin. Do health care staff get to ask if the person they are treating have had the jab? They might be vulnerable or have vulnerable people at home too. Works both ways.

Thank you @VinylDetective

Sincerely hoping everyone can see the difference between the assertion

The vaccines have been proved to reduce transmission

And even the headlines from the article which is cited in support.

New data from Addenbrooke's Hospital in Cambridge suggests that a single dose of the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine can reduce by 75% the number of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections. This implies that the vaccine could significantly reduce the risk of transmission of the virus from people who are asymptomatic, as well as protecting others from getting ill.

Can, could is really not the same as proven to. And the article explains that the study had not yet been peer reviewed.

@Botanicals FYI

@BettySweaty

Flip side of the coin. Do health care staff get to ask if the person they are treating have had the jab? They might be vulnerable or have vulnerable people at home too. Works both ways.

If they have access to their medical records it will be on there. They may also ask about vaccinations (my dentist did recently). If they are immunosuppressed (so the vaccine won't work well) then yes they could ask to only treat people who are vaccinated.

@BungleandGeorge

Actually patients are totally at liberty to withhold their medical history although it is often not in their best interests. This is classed as highly sensitive information and needs consent to share. People who make requests for certain staff are adamant of them and you could also say that insisting on treatment only with a senior consultant is a safety issue. It’s not reasonable though, and it’s not reasonable to ask individual staff for their medical details if the trust have a policy for effective infection control. You can still be infectious post vaccine, other patients could be infectious, staff might have contraindications there is a lot to consider. The approach of putting staff on the spot will not achieve what the op wants.

If you go to the GP they don't ask permission to access the records they have on you.

It's their private medical information. If they want to share it then that is up to them. If they don't wish to share then that is entirely their right.

The question is whether it is okay to ask not whether they have to share when asked. I would mind being asked at all and think it quite selfish if anyone does if treating someone who is immunosuppressed.

The hospital has to draw up risk assessments and put in appropriate measures that consider staff and patients. They will have been signed off and should be followed and patients are well within their rights to expect the measures in them. If they are concerned about anything then they are well within their right to question and get clarification.

If risk assessments were full proof there wouldn't have been a huge amount of hospital acquired covid infections and deaths in the last year.

The question is whether it is okay to ask not whether they have to share when asked. I would mind being asked at all and think it quite selfish if anyone does if treating someone who is immunosuppressed.
Yes, but not answering isn't being viewed naturally as something someone reasonably declines to share. It's being used as grounds to demand different healthcare professionals simply because they decline to share their personal information.

Hospital risk assessments are done based on the risks to patients and staff.

Say a patient does decide they only want to be seen by staff who will share their medical information, are they going to quiz every HCA, every nurse, every doctor who comes into the room to see another patient, are they going to demand to see everyone who comes on shift at night, every porter, every cleaner etc and then forbid them from coming in their bay unless they volunteer the information and demand a different person for any of those roles?
There have been some interesting studies that suggest covid travels far more than 2m indoors, are other patients expected to have their care changed because they happen to share a bay or ward round with someone who will only accept staff who confirm their vaccination status? Some HCPs might have had their first vaccine 3 weeks ago, some might have had it 3 hours ago, with totally different levels of immunity.

The OP isn't unreasonable at all for wanting information on risk assessments, nor would they be unreasonable for wanting to raise their worries in the current climate, nor would they be unreasonable if they had questions about the risk assessments that they wanted to ask. I do think it's unreasonable to expect to ask all staff to share their vaccination status and then demand different people if they decline to.

Yes, but not answering isn't being viewed naturally as something someone reasonably declines to share. It's being used as grounds to demand different healthcare professionals simply because they decline to share their personal information.

I don't think it is a nice to refuse to divulge if the person asking is immunosuppressed because they are not only extremely vulnerable to Covid but they can't be protected themselves by the vaccine. If a healthcare professional doesn't want to be vaccinated they shouldn't be looking after people who are immunosuppressed. If they are vaccinated why wouldn't they want to say so if it means the patient is reassured? I'm a healthcare professional and I wouldn't mind at all if it reassured someone who had a very good reason to be nervous . I think you are in the wrong job if you are more concerned about keeping it confidential whatever the impact on the patient.

@Belladonna12

''Would you seriously refuse to reassure a patient who was anxious about whether or not you are vaccinated because they were immunocompromised? It wouldn't cross my mind to do that. I think it's quite selfish be so precious about your own privacy when the patient doesn't get much privacy from you and when they have very good reason to be nervous.''

It is not selfish to want to keep your medical history private !
How dare you suggest that NHS staff should sacrifice their own right to privacy for anyone else's 'peace of mind' or for 'reassurance' Perhaps you would be happy to do this, but don't have the bloody cheek to call NHS staff who would NOT be happy to do this bloody selfish !

Everyone who has access to the patients medical history has been vetted and cannot divulge any information to anyone who does not require the information for direct patient care. It is obvious that if you need medical care, then staff need your medical history to treat you safely.

A patient does not require the medical information of the staff treating them. They are not entitled to know if you have been vaccinated, just as they are not entitled to know if you have HIV or a mental health condition. It is up to the staff member, their doctor, occupational health to assess a staff members fitness to work and the responsibility of the staff members line manager and NHS trust to ensure the safety of both patient and staff by adherence to national guidelines. Period.

The OP is of course, free to ask anyone whatever she likes, but the staff have the right to refuse to answer, and no-one has the right to call them anything for refusing to give up their right to privacy !

@Belladonna12

''I don't think it is a nice to refuse to divulge if the person asking is immunosuppressed because they are not only extremely vulnerable to Covid but they can't be protected themselves by the vaccine.''

Erm............the OP has had the vaccine, or didn't your HCP depth reading work today ??

We're not talking about being nice here are we?

You're trying to say that the HCP's caring for the OP should disregard their own right to medical privacy, to make the OP feel better??

When you go to your doctor, should we all disregard your right to privacy, just because it will make me feel better to know whether or not your last blood test showed HIV or not and I'm scared it'll get into a scratch I've got on my arm ??*

If you’re a HCP then I’m presuming it’s not in the UK as you don’t seem familiar with healthcare here,
You’ve given your GP consent to access your records when you chose to register with them and you chose them to care for you. They have no rights to access other sources, such as GPs you have seen privately or when you access other services like 111. They can only look at your record for a designated purpose, such as you making an appointment with them, they can’t just access it for a good read because they feel like it.
It’s a non-issue really medical records are deemed as highly sensitive in this country so you will not know who is vaccinated or not. The many pitfalls of this approach have been pointed out, it’s just not going to be an effective way of keeping safe. Confrontation rarely gets the best out of people!
Nobody wants patients to be worried. I would suggest:

1. Speak to your doctor to find out how immunosupressed you are (it’s a very general term ranging from negligible immune system to low normal) . Ask if there is any treatment or measures to boost this. Get appropriate prophylactic vaccinations and/or treatment/ medication to reduce your risk
2. Speak to the hospital about their risk assessment and safety measures. It would be useful if you can give them an idea of your degree of immunosuppression and what prophylactic vaccines/ treatments you might have had if they don’t know this already.

It’s worth pointing out that covid is not the only risk in a hospital, there are many opportunistic pathogens, some more tricky than covid. The hospital will have procedures that reduce transmission for all of them

You’ve given your GP consent to access your records when you chose to register with them and you chose them to care for you. They have no rights to access other sources, such as GPs you have seen privately or when you access other services like 111. They can only look at your record for a designated purpose, such as you making an appointment with them, they can’t just access it for a good read because they feel like it.

If you are registered with a GP they will document all your interactions and treatment with them . If you don't let them keep records, they won't treat you. I appreciate that they don't access them for a good read but my point is that when you visit your GP they will read about their previous interactions with you. When you go to hospital, they will write a letter to your GP about it and this will also be seen by your GP at future appointments. If you have a Covid vaccine, this will be on your GP records now.

Belladonna12
I'm not a HCP.
I just don't think people should be put on the spot about their private information, nor do I think they should be expected to share that information, nor do I think people should be guilt tripped or manipulated into it (which is what all this 'if you cared you would... why wouldn't you want to make someone feel better...' is).

There are ways to have discussion about someone's concerns about going into hospital during Covid that don't rely on expecting staff to inform them of their medical information.