To ask Health care staff treating me if they've had their covid vaccine?

[BearEastie]

I am immunosuppressed. I've been vaccinated but they don't know how well it will work yet.

I would prefer to only be treated by staff who had been vaccinated, thus if they said no I would ask for limited contact or a swap in nursing etc.

Just read shocking statistics from the hospital I am due to go to next month for a two week stay and I am starting to freak out just a little bit.

The Trust will absolutely know which staff are vaccinated and not. Reasons for that they may not know but they will know the facts.

We are all having individual Covid risk assessments done and being vaccinated or not is factored into that for the staff members own sake as much as for patients.

If a person is clinically vulnerable and not vaccinated they have adjustments made which can include redeployment away from face to face work at our Trust.

Being pregnant seems a good example of that to me. I am hugely pro vaccine and participate in a vaccine trial but if I was pregnant or maybe actively TTC I think I would be worried and likely not be vaccinated and I would not tell a random patient that.

I do think it's for the Trust to manage the risks to staff and patients and not for individual staff to have to defend their own position.
I am afraid I am less than convinced of the magical properties of PPE although I do adhere to it. I absolutely know staff who were infected whilst wearing it and vice versa. If I were a vulnerable patient then yes I would prefer to be treated by a vaccinated staff member than an unvaccinated one but I would want the Trust to organise that and I would not ask the individual person.

[quote BearEastie]@VinylDetective THE POSTER JUST SHARED THAT INFORMATION WITH ME, ON THIS THREAD.

I replied to say I didn't judge her for that decision... which she voluntarily shared with me (in writing, just above your post).[/quote]
You’re not talking about that poster, are you? You’re talking about the staff who will be providing your health care. And their vaccination status is none of your business.

@ExcitingTimes2021 Thank you for sharing your experience, and I am sorry you have had such a bad time.

Are there high levels of staff sickness because of COVID? Because lots of people have been saying that everyone has had covid already and thus it's now not a risk from staff? It's sort of confusing to know which is correct.

@VinylDetective In that post i was very clearly talking about that poster, hence why she was tagged in, and it was a direct response to her

Also, I’m sorry that times are such that you have all of these extra worries and things to think about on top of focussing on the treatment that you need.

I can only imagine how frightening it is to be so vulnerable in a world where so many more things have suddenly become threatening, and the feelings of stress and anxiety about feeling relatively helpless to control those risks.

As above, I don’t agree that it’s appropriate to approach this on an individual basis but I send you every best wish for successful treatment and sincerely hope that the department can reassure you even a little with their overall policies.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity but lots of posters on this thread are saying their trusts don't know whether they've been vaccinated?

I am afraid I am less than convinced of the magical properties of PPE although I do adhere to it. I absolutely know staff who were infected whilst wearing it and vice versa.

I share your stance on this, which is why posters who were saying well PPE protects just as much as the vaccine are wrong in my opinion.

Thank you for sharing your views and experiences.

@parallax80 Yes, I now am going to change the tact on asking directly, write beforehand and it will only be an issue if the information is volunteered to me.

I have seen health care professionals recently and they've all openly said they had been vaccinated but quite possibly because they knew it would reassure me massively.

The one who asked if I had been vaccinated was actually asking because they had a relative with a similar condition and they wanted to know about how I was in the days after the vaccine (I happily shared as much as I could with them).

@parallax80 thank you for your good thoughts too.

@BearEastie I’m not 100% sure of why staffing has been so difficult but when I spoke with the senior staff last night I was given afew different reasons. These are not facts though, just information I was given from my managers.

1. Staff shielding.
2. Staff going off with bad backs and musculoskeletal problems due to working for the past 12 months short staffed and having to do the work of two/threepeople.
3. Depression and anxiety (due to covid and the pressure we have been under for the past 12 months). This one made me really sad that my colleagues feel that depressed they have no choice but to step away from a career we love!
4. Symptoms of long covid.
5. People are simply burnt out and have stopped picking up the extra shifts and overtime as they just can’t face doing anymore. The NHS as long relied on staff picking up extra shifts to staff wards safely and people just can’t do anymore. I have to admit I feel this way too having only picked up 3 extra shifts the past few months. I just don’t feel I have it in me to do any more extras at this time.

I think in my clinical area there are either two or three of us who can’t yet have the vaccine for medical reasons but have been risk assessed as to safe to work on wards (don’t ask me how that works! Seems a bit backwards.) So I don’t think it’s uncommon to have staff who simply can’t have the vaccine yet. It’s all very stressful to be honest. Still, I love my job and I love nursing, would just love a few more pairs of hands and feet on the ward.

I hope your inpatient stay does well and I know that despite pressures on the NHS the ward will do their absolute best to care for you and keep you safe! Xx

@BearEastie

As a HCP I Have lots of ladies ask for a female member of staff to care for them, unfortunately due to the way our ward works we can not always guarantee that and they are advised that this is the case. Reason for asking can be cultural to rape but it is always the same answer.

I have never had a woman decline the care of a male member of staff saving her life.

You made a statement up thread regarding HIV and us knowing the status, we treat every patient as one who has an infectious disease such as HIV/HEP and use appropriate PPE.

We now treat every patient as if they have covid and use the same level of PPE, the only time this changes is if they are having an aerosol generated procedure and we use the mask we have been FIT tested for.

I would not disclose my covid vaccine status to a patient of mine, however and this is where I do not feel you are being unreasonable, I would not be offended by you asking and I would not be offended by you refusing my care. As you have said previously you do and should get a choice in who cares for you.

Playing devils advocate though,

how would you feel if midway through your treatment there was not a confirmed vaccinated HCP to care for you?

How would you feel to know that the vaccine does not reduce transmission?

How would you feel if you tested positive on admission and could potentially pass the infection on but all of the staff were still happy to treat you and use the same PPE as they usually do?

The hospital Trust I work in does not know my covid vaccination status and I have not shared it with them as no one has asked so I would be doubtful if they could give you the answers to reassure you.

I hope your procedure goes well and you get some reassurance but please remember, we will do everything in our power to keep you safe and protect you as best we can

I can only say that our Trust keeps very careful records of anyone vaccinated in house and also asks anyone who was vaccinated eg by their own GP to report that. (They do the exact same for flu jabs and Hep B status etc ) They can't force us to tell them but I guess they'd have to assume a person was unvaccinated if they chose not to disclose. My line manager sure knows which of us is vaccinated.

I think it's very reasonable of you to want to be as safe as possible.
The safest thing for the Trust to do (for staff AND patients) is to try to deploy vaccinated staff frontline and I think they are trying to do this if they can. If it was a case of no staff or unvaccinated staff then they obviously have to deploy what staff they have and I have no reason to doubt what people are saying that their Trust is so short staffed that this is necessary.

In our Trust staffing was dire a few weeks ago. Christmas andJanuary time. Really scarily bad. However things are easing now as everyone has had it and/ or been vaccinated and people are being redeployed back to usual roles again.

You won't really have a choice in the moment, on the day, of vaccinated vs unvaccinated staff because whoever is on shift is whoever is on shift and there might be no-one else available. It wouldn't be that persons fault they are deployed to work there so if you ask the Trust in advance about the risk assessment and the policy and don't feel reassured I think the choice would have to be to decline the admission.

It a matter of weighing risks like everything in life. It's true there will always be risks of any hospital admission to be weighed against the benefits and it's fine for you to seek to be properly informed of these. On the other hand it is likely unrealistic to think that special arrangements could necessarily be made for you to only be treated by vaccinated staff. It's for the Trust to seek to achieve this for all patients if they can.

I'd be mildly annoyed if you felt you could ask me my vaccination history - that's between me, occupational health and anyone involved in my care. Occupational health have cleared me to work with patients - that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned really.

As it is yes, I've had the first covid jab and didn't even get a bloody sticker incidentally, but there are other people on my healthcare related course who, for various reasons (linked with their medical circumstances from the ones who have opened up about it) who haven't as of yet/aren't comfortable having it at all. Their choice when it's not mandatory.

As for Hep B - we were meant to have it mandatorily but with Covid hitting right when they were getting toward final shots - it all got a bit fucked up and Occ Health are still trying to round us up (scattered around the country now as many doing virtual placements) to get it all finished up now a year later! I'm not planning on losing sight of a limb in a patient's body cavity though - I only do mouths and noses!

How would you feel if you tested positive on admission and could potentially pass the infection on but all of the staff were still happy to treat you and use the same PPE as they usually do?

This would absolutely effing terrify me - honestly I cannot think of anything worse than being the one to pass covid on to someone else. It fills me with dread and anxiety.

(just making dinner so responding in pieces).

Regarding the mandatory issue.

I have heard that unless or until the vaccine is licensed it's not legal to make it mandatory for anyone to have it.

At the moment they are all unlicensed aren't they? The covid vaccines? (And therefore no one responsible or accountable for any future side effects, meaning no recourse for individuals)

Of course they are not unlicensed. They have been approved by the MHRA which is all that's required now we've left the EU.

Yes, the government changed the law to allow the MHRA to approve the vaccine quickly. But what does 'approval' mean with regards to liability?

Who accepts liability? Genuine question. The vaccine producers have been given immunity i believe.

The government will indemnify any claims. That's the basis of the deal.
Rest assured you'll always have someone to sue.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity This is what Astra Zeneca say about their vaccine:

This medicinal product has been given authorisation for temporary supply by the UK Department of Health and Social Care and the Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. It does not have a marketing authorisation, but this temporary authorisation grants permission for the medicine to be used for active immunisation of individuals aged 18 years and older for the prevention of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

None of your business.
Be grateful you are getting treatment.
If you are so concerned then don’t go into hospital.
Give your place to someone more grateful

I've never sued anybody in my life and don't relish the idea. Don't belittle perfectly reasonable concerns. Fear and mistrust thrive on unresolved and unanswered questions.

It's about being reassured that someone out there is confident enough to say 'if it goes tits up then we're here'. I was under the impression that there wasn't anyone. Glad there is.

OP - I am frontline NHS in areas with high exposure to infected pts.

I also happen to have in 2019 an illness, on top of my usual long term chronic condition, which put me on drugs that can affect my immune system. I stopped them in December as it was obvious where we were heading.

After risk assessment, I continued to work but not in my usual roles thus reducing my exposure to high risk. I remained well.

However, my medical privacy has been questioned repeatedly. I have had to admit what is and has more recently been wrong with me, the long term condition is no problem but the newer one I had told no one about for a very good reason. I have been questioned aggressively by individuals and shamed in team meetings. By mid April, it had got so bad - I stood up infront of colleagues in person and on zoom and told them - there was a deafening silence.

Come the second wave - those aggressive colleagues feel free to come up to me infront of anyone and tell me I am no longer high risk because I stopped the drugs a year ago.

I had a colleague check my name on the CEV list and not finding it - brought this up in a meeting. I did point out that my professional name was not necessarily my real name and unless he knew that he was going to struggle.

The pandemic has eroded so many of our rights - not least our right to privacy with regard to our medical issues. No one needed to know pre covid as I functioned normally and came to work albeit knackered most of the time.

YOu can ask but do not demand it is your right to know.

To say no would then lead to the question why - and that is personal.

FYI: I signed up into the first phase of the oxford vaccine trial - because I realised the totality of me chronic long term, age etc put me in the high risk of dying category, I just needed to be male!

YOu can ask but do not demand it is your right to know.

Please where have I said I would demand to know? No where, i haven't.

I have also not said i would ask why if I was told the answer was No.

I am really sorry for what you've been through, this is definitely not unique to health care, sadly!

@victoriaspongecake I won't be getting any treatment if I get covid during admission 1.

It's not a case of not being grateful either, nor is it possible to just give my treatment to some one else either - you can't just pass on specialist NHS treatment to someone else

I ask my colleagues and health staff I come in to contact with outright. They don't have to tell me but any opportunity to tell them I'm vaccinated and it was absolutely fine not to be missed.

@victoriaspongecake

None of your business. Be grateful you are getting treatment. If you are so concerned then don’t go into hospital. Give your place to someone more grateful

"Grateful" to get treatment 😮 - I sincerely hope you aren't an NHS employee.