"It's What boys do"

[ImFree2doasiwant]

As in, rough play, wrestling, taking it a bit too far, pushing, pulling, which sometimes deteriorates into one biting, or pinching, or scratching. So long around on the floor in a "bundle " and being really bloody noisy.

These are my DC btw, and this has been said to me by friends and family, if I've mentioned how hard I find it to deal with. Because sometimes, they just don't stop.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to play together or leave each other alone. I don't think it's reasonable to start this with another family members (much older) DC as soon as they walk in the house (single parent, support and childcare bubble.)

Aibu to expect to be able to leave the room without all hell breaking loose? And to expect them to behave when visiting?

Any advice on how to deal with it? They are outside a LOT and very active. 4 and 5.

I know this is aibu so I might get a pasting, but along with the aibu I really would appreciate advice.

@justanotherneighinparadise

there are as many threads by women depressed about having girls, so on balance it works out well!

I have never seen ANY threads about women being depressed about having a girl 😮

Neither have I, and I’ve been swanning around here for 10 years !

@ElphabaTheGreen

I worked with young children for decades. Little boys (not all of them) are overwhelmingly the sex with a need/obsession for 'play fighting' - but this is Mumsnet where we have to pretend that girls do it just as much, god knows why.

But Apples is this because the parents were letting more boys get away with it at home ‘because they’re boys’?

All young male mammals “play fight” - it’s how, in the animal kingdom, males learn how to fight for mates and territories. It stands to reason that humans would have the same instincts.

I do not know any young boys who don’t play fight.

I would be surprised if the U.K. was much different to the U.S. in this, and in the US there seems to be a preference towards boys.

That leads me to the conclusion that “it’s a MN thing” and there is some overlap between the demographic that uses this forum, and the demographic that prefers girl babies.

All young male mammals “play fight” - it’s how, in the animal kingdom, males learn how to fight for mates and territories

I might be wrong here, but don't young female mammals play fight too? Lions for example. Females are often the most ferocious in protection of their young. So isn't rough and tumble how siblings, regardless of sex, learn about boundaries?My 2 (10yo ds and 4yo dd) do.

But yes op, I hate the 'boys will be boys' mentality. Play fighting is one thing, behaving badly is quite another.

@Osirus have we not evolved so we don't need to fight for mates

No way is it acceptable, yes, often boys play rougher than girls - you see that just watching groups in the park!
But no way would I accept my boys fighting and hurting each other or view it as 'boys are like that'. The rough and tumble certainly never ever took place in front of others - they could switch it on and off.

I hate it too, OP. There are always people claiming boys and girls are just innately extremely different from a young age. I do see a tendancy towards more physical behaviour with boys, but I'm not at all convinced it is innate rather than environmental.

Given we live in a world where in the not so distant past women were thought to "just naturally" be unsuitable for intellectual jobs/responsibility for their own finances/having the right to vote - in the absence of any physical proof of extreme difference in children, I treat them the same and have the same expectations of them I would if they were girls.

That Steve Biddolph book is always referenced, I'm sure it has been debunked about some testosterone surge when theyre preschoolers

I have three boys and they have never physically fought. It really really annoys me when people state it's inevitable because it's not. Clear boundaries, zero tolerance of any violence, lots of physical exercise, plenty of garden time and organised sport. My boys are all really sporty but they're also kind, sensitive and well-behaved. It probably helps that my husband is a really gentle man though...he models the behaviour he expects to see with no raised voices, no macho wrestling with them and no physical discipline. There's still so much toxic masculinity about, that's where the problems arise.