"It's What boys do"

[ImFree2doasiwant]

As in, rough play, wrestling, taking it a bit too far, pushing, pulling, which sometimes deteriorates into one biting, or pinching, or scratching. So long around on the floor in a "bundle " and being really bloody noisy.

These are my DC btw, and this has been said to me by friends and family, if I've mentioned how hard I find it to deal with. Because sometimes, they just don't stop.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to play together or leave each other alone. I don't think it's reasonable to start this with another family members (much older) DC as soon as they walk in the house (single parent, support and childcare bubble.)

Aibu to expect to be able to leave the room without all hell breaking loose? And to expect them to behave when visiting?

Any advice on how to deal with it? They are outside a LOT and very active. 4 and 5.

I know this is aibu so I might get a pasting, but along with the aibu I really would appreciate advice.

I would replace the word boys with kids. Apart from that I don't know what else you can do. We used to play fight and wrestle. All my friends did, especially with their siblings.

@justanotherneighinparadise

there are as many threads by women depressed about having girls, so on balance it works out well!

I have never seen ANY threads about women being depressed about having a girl 😮

Me either! My experience is 100% women upset about having boys.

@justanotherneighinparadise

there are as many threads by women depressed about having girls, so on balance it works out well!

I have never seen ANY threads about women being depressed about having a girl 😮

From selective abortion after finding out the sex of the baby, to women resenting having girls, dreading the bitchy, distant, unpleasant stage...

Girls are taking a beating on here just as much as boys do, the stereotypes are going very strong both ways.

"boys are more cuddly, boys are more respectful, boys love their mum more etc...".

Normal parents have CHILDREN though...

IME it IS what boys do . All their pals did it. My grandson does.
Boy birthday parties were often mayhem.

In their teens, it was like having young bullocks loose in the house, charging and barging each other.

It doesn't mean there are no rules and by 4/5 mine certainly knew that , biting, and poking with pointy things was not allowed; as they got older, chinese burns and kicking/punching were also off limits.

For years I witnessed teenaged groups of boys and groups of girls walking down school corridors, in the yard, standing outside of classrooms. The difference in the amount of physical contact within those groups was astounding. The boys just couldn't seem to keep their hands off each other, no body parts were out of bounds. The girls however, really did respect each others boundaries, and didn't fling their friends around potentially bling into other groups either.

*bumping not bling

I hate "boys will be boys". Many parents use that phrase when boys misbehave at school. I have a DS, really rough play as you are describing OP eg biting, scratching, is not acceptable. If they need to be physical it needs to be channelled properly

My boys don't do this, on the whole. They have been told from day 1 that it is unacceptable behaviour. I had to step in - there are 3 years between them and physically they are very different. Play fights / wrestling between the strapping 7 year old and the skinny-malinki 4 yr old were painful - to watch and to experience! I shouted a fair bit, I have to say, and luckily my mum (who both DSs love to bits) backed me up. She's a former primary teacher and has absolutely no truck with the "boys will be boys - shrug - what can you do?" attitude at all! They've never been smacked but I have been known to drag DS1 away from DS2. I would have no hesitation in intervening physically to separate them.

The main thing that sorted it though was DH. He played with them a lot, for hours, especially during the school holidays, letting them get physical with him rather than with each other and teaching them where the boundaries of physical play are.

Boisterous, noisy, that's okay, that's children. Hurting people - no way. It was really important to teach DS1 this as he is big and tall and now at 13yrs towers over most of his friends.

Children especially the older they get are extremely hierarchical. This displays itself differently in boys and girls due to the difference in body built so yes in a way it is 'what boys do' when it comes to competing physical strength. That is also why you see boys who are smaller and at a disadvantage opt out of competing in physical strength and look for alternatives to solidify their place in the hierarchy. That is also why for girls to go to weapon to elevate themselves are rarely physical

Play fighting and ‘going a bit too far’ is totally natural and healthy. It is all about negotiating healthy boundaries.

I don’t think, however, screeching is necessary or acceptable. People set a low bar these days on noisy children. Of course, they are not mini adults. However they can learn to be considerate and not disturb others too much.

When did biting pinching an scathing become playing? Wrestle away if playing without physically hurting but these children should know biting is a no.

Ugh yanbu I hate this.
From years of working with kids I'm sick of this excuse 'it's what boys do,boys will be boys ''

Ive seen some girls really struggle to understand why,after saying hello to another adult for example..they will be expected to answer some questions and sit/play politely... yet some boys in the same situation can immediately run off to wrestle of climb or shout.

I've worked with kids from tiny babies to young adults in many different settings and it really bothers me to see how other adults react to things like...a girl shrieking or screaming and climbing on things being told ''That's not nice for little girls to do,calm down'' ...or.... ''That's not very ladylike'' to older girls.

But when boys are doing the same thing its smiles...eye rolls and 'oh the boys are wild arent they ''

No, it’s definitely not just what boys do! I have 2 boys 18 months apart, now teenagers.

They enjoyed rough and tumble at that age but would stop in a moment if they thought the other one was hurt, if they were asked to stop, or if they thought they had taken it too far. We taught them about boundaries and the importance of consent from when they were toddlers though, so maybe that came into it, or maybe we were just lucky.

I don’t think this is specific to our children either. We usually had a houseful of their friends and they were always respectful. A couple were particularly boisterous, but taking them calmly to one side and explaining the rules and boundaries, and why they were in place, always seemed to do the trick.

I didn’t particularly like the “Raising Boys” book, but highly recommend “How to Talk so Children will Listen, and Listen so Children will Talk”

Also, I think they are worse at someone else's house. My mother would have gone up the bloody wall if I (or my brother) had behaved like that.

My advice is to 'go up the bloody wall'
No, honestly. Kick off and lay down the law. I've got two close in age and they just are not allowed to get too boistrous and out of hand.
I had to shout and seperate for them to get the message when they were younger. Now, pre-teens they are capable of being in the same space without the urge to poke, jump on or batter!
And like you and your bro, mine would even dream of misbehaving like that in someone elses house. Shouty Mum worked for me and mine and I havnt had to raise my voice for anything in years. Its bliss not being ruled by all the racket.

The main thing that sorted it though was DH. He played with them a lot, for hours, especially during the school holidays, letting them get physical with him rather than with each other and teaching them where the boundaries of physical play are.

I would also second what @miimblemomble said here ^. DH and I both did very physical play with them both, and judo from an early age too.

When they were at it yesterday, I thought to myself that I feel abused by them and their fighting. It's horrible and can suck the life and soul out of you.

I can relate to that. I have two boys myself (6 has autism & 3).

I get sick of hearing that’s just boys for you or that’s what boys do. My husband says it and I give him a look. MIL says “oh what a boy” to about everything they do and I can’t stop myself from internally eye-rolling. I also get sick of hearing how easy boys are compared to girls.

When my oldest isn’t slamming doors and getting upset over sounds or attacking his brother for making a sound he doesn’t like, he’s throwing tantrums because I’ve said to please wait or say he has to put trousers on to go outside. The youngest is doing things he’s not supposed to knowing he isn’t and giggling about it. He’s broken my things, coloured the rugs, radiators, curtains and bed with sharpies, and will continue to hit me or poke me even though I have said to stop several times nicely and then have to raise my voice which then gets tears and I feel like sh*t.

I feel like I must be doing something wrong because they’re not as easy as I’m constantly told and maybe they would be better off with a different mum because I’m obviously failing. I keep reminding myself that they’ll grow out of it and it will get easier. It has to. I’ve checked out books from the library to better understand and look for strategies to help and I’m still struggling. The only thing we have thankfully gotten somewhat right is bedtime.

They of course have their lovely and sweet moments, but I would not say I feel like I get treated like a Queen like I read on here or feel like one probably more like a maid with drill sergeant makings and I don’t like it. I’m hoping that will change as they get older.

@startrek90 thank.you, absolutely right that its so much worse as they dont get a break from each other, when they had got used to not seeing each other during school hours. They are having more screen time than usual (TV) . They generally dobt watch much but lockdown, no school and me attempting to work from home has resulted in more than I'm happy with.

Quite refreshing to see so many mothers of boys on here who think this is unacceptable. I have two girls (3 and 4) they wrestle/play fight but they are not allowed to purposely hurt each other and if someone wants to stop they must stop.

I have two sets of nephews and the way my sisters excuse their shitty, violent behaviour is maddening, because "boys will be boys" chuckle chuckle

We have wrestling ban and you dont touch a sibling unless they say ok. Mine have sen so no sense or proportion so had to put definite boundries in place

Girls can fight just as much as boys and ALL children need to be taught that that sort of behaviour is not appropriate, no matter how energetic the child is.

It isnt tolerated in girls and shouldnt be in boys.

Bugger I just lost a long reply.

@miimblemomble I have also made it clear that it's not acceptable. Yet they still do it. I dobt smack, I do shout sometimes, not least to be heard above the noise, and actually I think that's what prompted the last comment. I had to really shout before they even heard me, and I think my family member thought it was too much. I didn't carry on, once I had their attention. I did talk to them, and separate them.
We do play a lot outside, I'm not so good at the indoor playing. They also walk, and cycle. They'll be starting an "activity" as soon as they restart, and will go back to swimming.

@TheReluctantPhoenix I actually said receny, that it's the noise that is the worst. Playing I have no issue with but I dobt think this particular behaviour is ok.

They get a surge of testosterone at this age so perfectly normal.

You just have to make sure that one of them isnt getting away with always being the more dominant one (bully) and that they are both actually happy with these fights / bundles.

Mine have never wrestled or been physical with each other, they're not sporty or loud either. It's just not in their personalities, they crack jokes and create things together instead.

Quite refreshing to see so many mothers of boys on here who think this is unacceptable.

It is. I stop it as soon as I see it or hear it but I get told to leave them to it by older family members because it will make them strong and tough 🙄.

I have grandsons and granddaughters. The boys have always been a bit rough with each other, literally rolling round on the floor. I was always having to intervene afraid they might hurt each other, but they never cared if they did. My granddaughters would never fight that way, much more verbal. Most boys grow out of it imo, but on the whole it’s the males who get into punch ups when they get older not girls.

You only have to look in the playground to see the difference.