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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - coaches- creepy human pyramid schemes -

98 replies

Hufflepuffmamma · 25/02/2021 20:05

I have decided this needs a thread dedicated to it.

Because AIBU- for the rant below?

Yes yabu- people are motivated and able to sell themselves we should champion and support.get a life abs stop being so judgemental.

No- yanbu- I have noticed and am similarly irritated .

The coaching thing is driving me crazy of late. Constantly over my news feeds are these coaches who are “ transformational” published with ... , 10,000,000 a year income . Only looking to work with “serious” clients who are ready to earn thousands a month Confused...

It’s a human pyramid scheme ... The coaches never seem to have any clients who aren’t coaches themselves ..

all spurious testimonials that I think they paid for on fiverr... and don’t get me started on their ‘podcasts’ .. + the interviews with their own ‘celeb coaches ‘
(Where they have clearly ripped off a 2 second clip of them asking a question in a webinar to make it look like they are in an intimate interview ....)

Oh and also the BIG SELL - If you are serious you will “invest” 29,999 in their coaching ... ( I got quoted an amount like this once to be coached )

God- I’m aware that I sound incredibly bitter ... I think I have been holding this rant in...

It’s just yucky

Oh and their qualifications are usually a 20 quid NLP course from future learn or similar bullshit ...

Sorry but just Sad

I am aware that I am being an awful judgemental person . This pandemic has encouraged my awfulness no end I
am afraid.

Feel free to correct my outlook.

OP posts:
ladybee28 · 26/02/2021 10:27

Being coached gives you (or should give the averagely intelligent person) all the skills they need to become a coach themselves.

I very much disagree. And this (very common, unfortunately) perception is exactly why the industry is so cheapened, misunderstood, and losing trust.

fromdownwest · 26/02/2021 10:28

It is the ultimate sham.

Pay someone to coach you, you x10 your business (hate that phrase) they win. You fail to grow, then its your fault, and you need more intensive coaching, they win.

The track record of many of these so called coaches, is a trail of failed businesses and bankruptcy.

Law of attraction is used widely, which, is such an unhealthy approach to life. Think it and it comes true, if you don't think it, then try harder. Such a spiral of self loathing would come from this.

Original poster
Hufflepuffmamma · 26/02/2021 10:58

I’ve come back today and just love the conversations that are happening here. It must be so frustrating to be established and genuine as a coach and drowned out by this mob of insta coaches.

I am a great believer in positivity and even LOA Blush

But it’s not as simplistic as it’s made out to be. It requires a mindset shift and an acceptance of reality. As much as it pertains to magical thinking. This is not really the case. I just wish that people where able to be more genuine.

The blatant bollocks of it all is offensive and dangerous.

I have found this entire thread to be uplifting and a massive stress relief tbh.

OP posts:
Nebulacoffee · 26/02/2021 11:00

YES! They mean well but they prey on the vulnerable. All this “invest in yourself” nonsense is manipulating people who wish they were different to part with their money, as though the amount spent will equal extent of the transformation. It’s wicked. I don’t think the NLP-ers realise how unethical they are being because they have been NLP-ed themselves.

In my experience there is also a big overlap between these people and conspiracy theorists.

terrywynne · 26/02/2021 11:03

@ladybee28

Being coached gives you (or should give the averagely intelligent person) all the skills they need to become a coach themselves.

I very much disagree. And this (very common, unfortunately) perception is exactly why the industry is so cheapened, misunderstood, and losing trust.

I agree with ladybee28. Looking at an area where coaching is more clear cut in its definition. I have done sports as a hobby. I, and many others, received coaching in that sport. The coaching improved our ability to do said coach, it did not make us able to coach the sport. Some people then go on to take courses to train them in coaching that sport. A small subset are still not good coaches even after training. The rest are now trained in both doing the sport and coaching. They are not trained in coaching people to coach. A smaller subset will go into be the people who learn to deliver training and assessment to the wannabe coaches.

I don't see why life, career or business coaching should be any different just because 'coaching' has lost meaning/been coopted unlike sports where it us normally fairly defined (I am talking about sports with defined awards/levels to be achieved and competitive level sports)

Nebulacoffee · 26/02/2021 11:05

Oh yes and WTF is manifesting???

Theworldisfullofgs · 26/02/2021 12:51

Being coached gives you (or should give the averagely intelligent person) all the skills they need to become a coach themselves.

Lol.

Manifesting is bollocks by the way. It is a way of blaming you for not succeeding when other things are factors.

I really recommend reading Darren Brown's book on this - 'Happy.' I read it because I had preconceptions about what he would say and challenge myself but he basically debunks the manifestation bollocks.

YouokHun · 26/02/2021 13:51

Yes. Darren Brown’s book is interesting. I had some comms with him about rationality v positivity as an REBT therapist when that book was in production. I very much feel that “happiness” isn’t a commodity or an end goal and these “coaches” are at best misguided about that and at worst truly damaging.

I’m also an ardent anti MLMer and have dealt with the psychological fallout from those “coached” in magical thinking, toxic positivity (positivity can be irrational!), and self-blame. @Hufflepuffmamma I know you’re not opposed to L of A but it’s an abusive tool in the hands of many and every copy of The Secret should be burned!

The other thing that bothers me from a psychotherapist point of view about these coaches: They operate among often vulnerable people who are searching for something (I’m not talking about MLM sign ups necessarily). I often see “coaches” who have in some way slipped into a “therapist” role for which they are similarly untrained. There are some very real concerns: these people are not operating with insurance. They have no concept of risk; if you are coaching or breaking off the coaching to act as therapist, will you recognise when someone’s mental state is poor or they are suicidal? Will you ask the right questions? What will you do about that? If someone discloses trauma, will you know how to handle that? If someone logs off from a “coaching” session which has strayed into other territory and then they take their own life will you have the clinical notes ready to disclose at inquest? I know I sound extreme but I’ve seen some really concerning stuff from Mindset coaches and such like.

In the same way coaching has a wide spectrum from the professional qualified coach to the manifesting coach with dodgy associations, therapy also has the same problem, from the MSc qualified with hundreds of hours of supervised clinical practice, ongoing training, annual reaccreditation to the person who tells the person who has complex trauma to “think positive”. what we coaches and therapists have in common is we do not have a protected title and we do not always have a professional body that is active enough in monitoring the implied membership or association with bona fide ethical practitioners who know when they have someone in front of them who is beyond their skill set. I don’t really know what can be done about this. I’m lucky to be slightly removed in that I work partly in the NHS but in private practice there are some very suspect and frankly dangerous things going on.

Facultymeatings · 26/02/2021 14:06

I know a coach who has a degree, two level 3 nvq’s and doing the third along with several years of coaching experience and she is doing a further qualification now. It’s very easy to believe your own bullshit, if it’s not set within the framework of current legislation and knowledge then it’s just words at the end of the day.

Facultymeatings · 26/02/2021 14:08

That said, I went to a professional counsellor in my 20’s- she was awful. Cold, unresponsive “What you think that taught you?” I left unhappier and much poorer. Absolutely awful.

Love51 · 26/02/2021 14:11

I thought this was going to be about gymnastics.
I want to be coached to do a human pyramid!

bootlebum · 26/02/2021 14:22

Ugh just to say YANBU OP. I think it's an absolute racket and I am quite sure that the pandemic has created immense vulnerability and coaches are preying on this unforgivably. I add wellness / fertility coaches too.

Notanotherhun · 26/02/2021 14:38

What's scarier is that if you question it, you're denounced as negative, not supporting women etc etc.

Theworldisfullofgs · 26/02/2021 14:56

The difficulty is anyone can call themselves a coach with no real qualifications or real experience.

Many won't survive long in terms of work but it does make it difficult for those of us that treat it as a profession. Equally these faux coaches have poor boundaries between understanding the edge between coaching and therapy.

StormBaby · 26/02/2021 15:01

The only person I’ve ever known who was a self styled ‘life coach’ had the most chaotic messy life. She was a hoarder with a house that stank of cats piss, two failed marriages, unable to work in a job due to her poor mental health...hardly someone you’d want inspiring you to do better.

YouokHun · 26/02/2021 15:45

@Facultymeatings

That said, I went to a professional counsellor in my 20’s- she was awful. Cold, unresponsive “What you think that taught you?” I left unhappier and much poorer. Absolutely awful.
Counselling is another vague area. I know some brilliant BACP accredited counsellors and some pretty iffy weekend course qualified ones. And of course, someone can be suitably qualified and just not the right counsellor/therapist/coach for you. The one thing that can be said of properly qualified and accredited people; there is a way of raising complaints if their conduct is concerning. Not so the “coach”, just a message as @Notanotherhun says, that you are negative or a failure for not responding to their intervention in your life. Or that you are against the “empowerment of women” if you voice any doubt.

Attached is one coach’s version of empowerment (from a now defunct MLM which sold personal safety products and coached people about DA survival via the medium of scary Daily Mail articles about attacks on women. In the owner’s defence she saw the error in this and closed down the MLM).

AIBU - coaches- creepy human pyramid schemes -
tttigress · 26/02/2021 16:16

I worked with someone who was well into all the NLP stuff.

In the middle of 2008 financial crisis they decided not quit a fairly solid job at the insurance company we were working at, in order launch their life coaching business.

1.5 years later, they were working in s warehouse.

Part of me feels sorry for the people who get pulled into this stuff, but on the other hand they can be quite annoying, for example trying their NLP techniques out on unsuspecting ppl or trying to analyse ppl with them requesting it.

In my experience these ppl original hot into this material because they were not doing well in life.

tttigress · 26/02/2021 16:18

This should read they decided to quit a solid job

heartshapedskull · 26/02/2021 16:55

A next door neighbour is an ‘ambitious female coach empowering other female coaches to raise their magnetic online presence’, through her online ‘high vibe’ lounge and her ‘whizzy tea wisdom’. We try not to catch her eye...even though she is earning and helping other women earn six figures every month

Labobo · 26/02/2021 17:18

@StormBaby

The only person I’ve ever known who was a self styled ‘life coach’ had the most chaotic messy life. She was a hoarder with a house that stank of cats piss, two failed marriages, unable to work in a job due to her poor mental health...hardly someone you’d want inspiring you to do better.
I wonder if it was the one I met. A woman who looked worryingly impoverished - really shabby, stale-smelling out of fashion clothes, bad teeth and hair and a pervasive air of gloom and despondency. When I asked what she did and she told me 'life coach' I couldn't hide the shock. I always assumed they were size 8 with perfect teeth whizzing around in convertibles.
Original poster
Hufflepuffmamma · 26/02/2021 18:57

@Love51

I thought this was going to be about gymnastics. I want to be coached to do a human pyramid!
@Love51 😂😂😂😂
OP posts:
FakeFruitShoot · 28/02/2021 13:31

A mum at school is a mindset coach. It's really quite eye opening the amount of fawning over her that goes on on social media.

She's recently shared a post in the school private Facebook group which I feel very uncomfortable about.

We are in a low income area with high indices for deprivation and there are lots of desperate people locally at the moment.

It disgusts me.

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