AIBU - coaches- creepy human pyramid schemes -

[Hufflepuffmamma]

I have decided this needs a thread dedicated to it.

Because AIBU- for the rant below?

Yes yabu- people are motivated and able to sell themselves we should champion and support.get a life abs stop being so judgemental.

No- yanbu- I have noticed and am similarly irritated .

The coaching thing is driving me crazy of late. Constantly over my news feeds are these coaches who are “ transformational” published with ... , 10,000,000 a year income . Only looking to work with “serious” clients who are ready to earn thousands a month ...

It’s a human pyramid scheme ... The coaches never seem to have any clients who aren’t coaches themselves ..

all spurious testimonials that I think they paid for on fiverr... and don’t get me started on their ‘podcasts’ .. + the interviews with their own ‘celeb coaches ‘
(Where they have clearly ripped off a 2 second clip of them asking a question in a webinar to make it look like they are in an intimate interview ....)

Oh and also the BIG SELL - If you are serious you will “invest” 29,999 in their coaching ... ( I got quoted an amount like this once to be coached )

God- I’m aware that I sound incredibly bitter ... I think I have been holding this rant in...

It’s just yucky

Oh and their qualifications are usually a 20 quid NLP course from future learn or similar bullshit ...

Sorry but just

I am aware that I am being an awful judgemental person . This pandemic has encouraged my awfulness no end I
am afraid.

Feel free to correct my outlook.

That must be infuriating @Theworldisfullofgs is there anything from your side of the fence that’s happening to distance or differentiate from the MLM type?

The big scandal that happened around Sarah Akwisombe was terrible as she's not only scammed loads of women but also now gaslighting, blocking and trying to silence anyone who speaks out, but as PP have said, it's taken a really interesting turn with a financial crime investigator looking into her.

www.instagram.com/tv/CLhEqI_Hfu_/?igshid=1gnf27au3p2hq

www.instagram.com/tv/CLcsKuUpauj/?igshid=6ut96kcgx9ti

www.instagram.com/reel/CLgn04cnR8x/?igshid=1xk80clbfv1sn

I think this could be the case that brings a lot of change to the industry as the proper coaches (a bit like the PP upthread) are starting to speak out to ensure they aren't tarnished by her.

You can join a professional body. Its not mandated and its can be helpful. None of these lot do.
I mostly ignore them but I tend to work with large organisations and specialise in leadership and culture. All my 'private' clients are people who I've worked with and want to continue beyond their organisational contract. I don't do 'life coaching'.

I don't think this fad will last. The last recession put paid to a similar trend and the people that thought coaching was a way to make a quick buck without having to do much.

@ladybee28 - I think a huge problem is a lack of clarity over what a coach actually is!

What I would pay for:

• someone to chat through how to make my job more family friendly and how to pitch it
• how to pitch for my dream job
• discussion about voluntary work that might be useful for my career

But I'm not sure that coaching is this? The coach I saw we talked about my workplace values. It really wasn't useful at all. She told me I had a block around time and money. Its not useful at all to tell people that they have limiting beliefs. To me it felt lazy - she didn't know how to pitch for these roles so the problem was my thinking.

@Theworldisfullofgs - who would you recommend go and see a coach? Im in no doubt there are some excellent ones out there. In the future if be interested in a career change - would a coach be useful to see?

OMG I honestly just thought it was here in Oz that had the biggest load of shite peddling extortionists-recently had the 'pleasure' of liasing with one such guru through the choices a client had made and the overdraft they'd succeeded in racking up..absolute human detrius.

In the circles I move in, the latest wheeze is 'business mentoring' - by people who claim they can 'grow your business'.

Most of the people I've seen are either failed business people themselves or have already experimented with MLM especially the one that has to do with plants....

Talk about 'the blind leading the blind'

A good coach would help you prioritise your criteria for a job search.
If you do have limiting beliefs a good coach would help you explore them and reframe/change. Not just leave you with it! And work with you on strategies to get the job you want and potentially can introduce you through contacts/networks to other helpful people . It sounds like she didn't know what she was doing!

Hattych
It's hard to say because it's also about finding someone who is the right fit for you. The Association of Coaching can be a useful resource.

I tend to help existing clients and friends who are looking for a new role. Deciding what and doing applications/CVs/ interview practice. Personally I'd look for someone who is strong on giving useful feedback.

Yes I would recommend a coach. But I would say that, wouldn't I ...and my clients tend to get the roles they go for.

*I help friends as a favour! I have a limiting belief about charging friends (I don't mix money and friendship). I know that and I'm happy to live with that. We have dinner when they get the job in normal times.

I also won't coach friends about anything else or turn clients into friends. One of the issues with the 'others' is lack of boundaries.

I agree wholeheartedly with @PenisBeakerIsMyFavouriteMuppet and @Theworldisfullofgs and @ladybee28

I am a professional trainer too who does coaching as well. Multinational tech company, most people would recognise the name, not senior leadership but in the leadership structure.

This coaching bollocks people spout cheapens the skill set we have worked, and continue to work, hard for. From our foundational 8 skill models and onward, we have worked really hard to feel confident in the value we can provide and this is a kick in the teeth.

For the record, I train business skill sets, and some resilience coaching.

@LunaHeather

OP I don't do Facebook but I had a feeling you would say that!

If you don't have to be on for work, i'd not bother. I used to be on Twitter for fun but the fun stopped so I hardly look at it now.

Totally with you on that. Twatter is toxic.

Ah I inspired you!
I agree. And the problem is that it’s probably ruining it for possible a handful of decent coaches who’ve been around for a while.

For anyone who is an actual professional coach - please do take a look at my thread (which I guess inspired this own) and if you can help or know someone who can feel free to get in touch somehow!

I wonder how coaches who cut their teeth through genuine hard work and rigour in life before the coaches who coach coaches came along .. feel about this OP your timing is fortuitous.

I qualified as a coach 8 years ago and today this came up on my fb memories:

“ When I decided to become a coach I essentially looked at it because a friend said to me “you know what? you should become a life coach,” on the basis that many people came to me for advice and I gave it to them. So I looked into the possibilities, found a coaching school, and did a transformational life coaching course.

Because of circumstances beyond my control I have in many senses moved away from the coaching world and haven’t been in a position to be coaching for a while. But a trend I am seeing more and more often has led me towards thinking that while coaching has the potential to change lives where possible the industry is becoming more and more about the personal goals of the coaches which in many senses appear to be making as much money as possible, and less about the people they are coaching, and that’s not what coaching should be about.

I have lost track of the amount of posts I’ve seen in various circles about how much people can earn, how much people are charging, and even one yesterday which talked about how they didn’t even have to advertise, but they went into groups and settings and identified the people they thought needed help and voila, these people were suddenly clammering to hand over their cash.

Now while there is no doubt that anyone who starts out to become a coach likely does so with the idea in mind that they want to earn a living, and I agree that if you are offering any kind of service then you have the right to be paid for that service. In fact I have personally experienced that those I have coached for free have seemed less applied to the process than those who have had to pay something.

However, when offering that service ends up being more about you, and how much you could earn, and how much you feel you are the one in a position to identify people’s issues than it is about the individuals who believe you can help them towards achieving their goals, then it is entirely possible that you have lost your own way on that journey and need to start looking inwards at who this is really about for you and whether you’re where you are for the right reasons.

I would like to be coaching again some time soon, but this is not about me or my wish to advertise my business. However as a profession which has started out with individuals in mind there is a real risk that it’s becoming more about who can make the most money and can put out the most profound thought for the day/week/moment etc, and less about the fact that you likely (or at the very least hopefully) originally went into coaching with the idea in mind that you had certain qualities which enabled you to listen to people and help them on their journeys towards where they wanted to be.

Obviously I am friends with lots of lovely coaches whom this doesn’t apply to and who will know that this doesn’t apply to them. That doesn’t mean though that the sentiment doesn’t still apply to an industry which should be less about “us” and more about “them” if that makes sense.”

I haven’t gone back to coaching as per my post because frankly this attitude is the overriding one now and I don’t want to be associated with it.

I’ve got a business coach and have a number I’d recommend. What kind of business, and what are your main coaching goals/objectives? I did a number of “coaching chemistry “ conversations to see who I thought I’d get most from, but shortlist one my case had all been CEO level in consulting businesses as I definitely needed someone who had already walked the walk.

I agree with everything written here. Besides the MLM scams, there are many misguided actual coaches who pray on people who'd be better off talking to their management or HR most of the time.

I've read several posts that say things like "got to senior management role in X investment bank as vice president". It is embarrassing as most people over 30 are a VP in these banks. I don't know how they're not mortified but I guess they're appealing to a different crowd.

I have known several excellent coaches who were on boards of major companies (think BP, HSBC etc.) who coach as their semi-retirement gig. These people are amazing and worth every penny.

As for business coaches, these are the ultimate scammers. They advise you to get 5% of your company and then never see you again. In fact Prince Andrew was a variant of this. His Pitch in the Palace thing also landed him a slice of each company that presented while everyone else was doing it for free.

@FortunesFave

YANBU it's a disease. I've worked for myself as a content writer for over 11 years now and I still get people contacting me on LinkedIn trying to sell me a course that will help me "grow my business"

I WRITE the shite sales pitches...you can't try them out on me pal!

Great post!

Completely agree with you! I have been having so many crawling out recently along with the other usual pyramid scheme scams with their obvious copy and paste messages!

It also is extremely bad for people who actually are genuine as so many people will likely assume another person at it. Quite bad considering what is needed and all of the work and effort that goes into becoming a "proper" coach!

All pyramid schemes make me so annoyed as it usually tends to be the more vulnerable who end up becoming involved

[quote Hattych]@ladybee28 - I think a huge problem is a lack of clarity over what a coach actually is!

What I would pay for:

• someone to chat through how to make my job more family friendly and how to pitch it
• how to pitch for my dream job
• discussion about voluntary work that might be useful for my career

But I'm not sure that coaching is this? The coach I saw we talked about my workplace values. It really wasn't useful at all. She told me I had a block around time and money. Its not useful at all to tell people that they have limiting beliefs. To me it felt lazy - she didn't know how to pitch for these roles so the problem was my thinking.[/quote]
I hear you @Hattych, that rings TOTALLY true.

And it sounds a little like what I mentioned upthread, where people pop out of the coach factories with their list of models to apply to problems, and instead of actually listening and responding, they try and fit one of their models onto your problem because it's all they feel confident doing. Never mind that it might not fit.

And I'd also say that in a lot of cases the 'problem' (I don't actually see it as a problem, but that's another story) IS sort of our thinking. But not because of stupidness or stubbornness – it's just the human condition to have blind spots, things we take for granted, or ways of seeing the world that are so ingrained that we don't even consider some of the options available to us.

So a good coach can ask questions that have you see some of those ways of thinking clearly, and then that in turn reveals ways forward or solutions that you hadn't thought of before. But it's you finding those solutions yourself, rather than being told what to do by the coach (which would make them an advisor rather than a coach).

I make it very clear to the people I work with that I include coaching in what I do –but I will also share ideas, experiences and subject-specific knowledge where I think it'll be helpful. Coaching is one tool in my kit - not the whole bag.

thing is real coaching is a very specific role often within a system. most sports expect you to be accredited. I work with job coaches and they are mostly people with teaching , assessor and coaching qualifications

@ladybee28 and @Theworldisfullofgs

You both sound to provide incredibly useful services. I wish I hadn't wasted my time and money on something that was never going to go anywhere! You must both despair seeing what some people are offering.

Like PP I’m a credentialed, certified coach with 20+ years organizational experience and a range of qualifications and coaching experience. It’s really important to me to continue my personal development and to maintain professional certification. I specialist in executive and leadership coaching and organisations I work with certainly wouldn’t work with the kinds of “coaches” this thread refers to.

It’s massively frustrating to be lumped in (in the minds of the general public) with these insta-coaches. As mentioned before there is no barrier to entry and no regulation of the industry, which is why I maintain professional
membership and credentials.

When I was first setting up my own business I joined some business development programmes which were very valuable, and which also opened my eyes to the types of coaches discussed on this thread. In fact, on several occasions I’ve thought it would be so much easier for me to go and coach wannabe coaches rather than senior business leaders. So many new coaches struggle to get their business off the ground and they are ripe for the promises of certain coaches of coaches. Some of these undoubtedly are genuine, but yes, there’s a real subset of coaches who make their money from selling programmes to new coaches and many appear to have very little experience themselves as coaches.

The number of times I get people on Instagram or LinkedIn pitching to me to help me reach $10k months (which seems to be the holy grail). It’s so fucking patronizing to assume I’m struggling and frankly it’s morally repugnant to cold pitch like that.

I love what I do and I love the feedback I get from my clients. I know I help them make an impact in their lives and that gives me huge satisfaction. I ignore the other crap and do my best to position myself differently.

If you are seeking a coach please do your research on their credentials and experience and definitely take them up on their free ‘chemistry’ calls. The American-style school of selling once me or tried to teach me is relentless and guilts people into buying (eg saying things like ‘you’re self-abandoning if you don’t sign up’) so be alert to that and don’t get railroaded into something that doesn’t seem right.

I should also add that I continue to get coaching (and coaching supervision) myself as it is exceptionally beneficial and powerful with someone who knows what they’re doing.

The selling techniques are so cliched as well - "get my free e-book [so I can get you into my list and pester the life out of you]" and you download a 50 page document to find it padded with picture and word salad and the only vaguely useful info could be condensed into a page or two of bullet points 🧐

The point is, anyone can be a coach if they can be bothered. Being coached gives you (or should give the averagely intelligent person) all the skills they need to become a coach themselves.

I'm not talking about any specific pyramid scam here, but coaching in general. Coaching doesn't require specific knowledge of any subject, it is about asking the questions for the recipient to unlock the knowledge they already have.