AIBU - coaches- creepy human pyramid schemes -

[Hufflepuffmamma]

I have decided this needs a thread dedicated to it.

Because AIBU- for the rant below?

Yes yabu- people are motivated and able to sell themselves we should champion and support.get a life abs stop being so judgemental.

No- yanbu- I have noticed and am similarly irritated .

The coaching thing is driving me crazy of late. Constantly over my news feeds are these coaches who are “ transformational” published with ... , 10,000,000 a year income . Only looking to work with “serious” clients who are ready to earn thousands a month ...

It’s a human pyramid scheme ... The coaches never seem to have any clients who aren’t coaches themselves ..

all spurious testimonials that I think they paid for on fiverr... and don’t get me started on their ‘podcasts’ .. + the interviews with their own ‘celeb coaches ‘
(Where they have clearly ripped off a 2 second clip of them asking a question in a webinar to make it look like they are in an intimate interview ....)

Oh and also the BIG SELL - If you are serious you will “invest” 29,999 in their coaching ... ( I got quoted an amount like this once to be coached )

God- I’m aware that I sound incredibly bitter ... I think I have been holding this rant in...

It’s just yucky

Oh and their qualifications are usually a 20 quid NLP course from future learn or similar bullshit ...

Sorry but just

I am aware that I am being an awful judgemental person . This pandemic has encouraged my awfulness no end I
am afraid.

Feel free to correct my outlook.

www.fca.org.uk/scamsmart/get-rich-quick-scams

OP I don't do Facebook but I had a feeling you would say that!

If you don't have to be on for work, i'd not bother. I used to be on Twitter for fun but the fun stopped so I hardly look at it now.

What annoys me is that they never seem to have practical advice. I know a few women who have gone into coaching and they talk a LOT about work life balance but they don't have any stories over how women get this to work in practice... most I'm pretty sure are lying about their clients...

I can imagine a coach might be useful for niche areas (ie how to grow your accupuncture business) but that doesn't seem to be what they do. It's very broad ideas with limited actual knowledge of careers

I like following them in morbid fascination, particularly a lifestyle/fashion coach I stumbled across. There's lots of big talk about having worked with Westwood, about writing books, editing magazines, launching collections, landing modelling contracts but I know from mutual friends it's all fantasy. One friend paid her £150 for a 'lifestyle rejuvenation' session and ended up with a trip to Oxfam.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice these, I thought I was being cynical. My friend has just signed up for a year long course to become a coach - and it cost her $12,000!!! It's ran by an American woman and apparently there are about 200 on the course. Think of the money she is making! And all her marketing is around getting these people to make the same sort of money she is making...

It’s so annoying.

I’m a qualified coach. I have a diploma in Executive Coaching from a recognised third level institution, and am accredited. I also have a degree, 20 years of experience in my industry, am a senior leader in a huge household-name organisation, hold chartered status with my professional body, do a shitload to mentor people, and never ever charge for coaching (I tend to work internally with women in my company) but do it to keep my CPD hours up.

I’ve also had a coach in the past and found him amazing when I needed a push to get myself into a senior position.

Now any idiot with an Instagram page and a pocketful of memes can set themselves up as a coach.

@Hattych

What annoys me is that they never seem to have practical advice. I know a few women who have gone into coaching and they talk a LOT about work life balance but they don't have any stories over how women get this to work in practice... most I'm pretty sure are lying about their clients...

I can imagine a coach might be useful for niche areas (ie how to grow your accupuncture business) but that doesn't seem to be what they do. It's very broad ideas with limited actual knowledge of careers

Yeah... this is part of the issue, though.

Coaching in its pure form isn't about giving advice. It's about asking questions that has a client see a situation in a new way and find their own solutions.

But, again, so many people are out there calling themselves coaches and trying to dole out 'do this' instructions that the word 'coach' has become diluted and misunderstood.

A coach is not a counsellor, nor a therapist, nor a mentor, nor an advisor.

But these dickheads using the label for whatever guru-bullshit they're marketing is messing up everyone's trust in, and understanding of, the role for the rest of us.

A good coach SHOULD have plenty of stories to tell though – in fact, I'd trust a coach with real, detailed client stories and strong testimonials FAR more than a coach with some of the qualifications that are out there at the moment.

I think not all coaches are human pyramid schemes. I’m a financial coach by trade - and I spent 7 years working in financial services, debt advice, financial well-being all before doing my accredited financial coach qualification and then building my business. I work with families, individuals and financial advisers. So whilst YANBU @Hufflepuffmamma not all “coaches” are quacks. Some of us have real skillsets.

Oh my god I feel so seen by this post OP thank you so much !!

I have been ranting to my friends about a 'friend' who has hounded me since my marriage broke up to work with her to find my 'divine light' and to manifest the life I deserve. All for the bargain price of £9k !!

When I said erm no I don't have that kind of money she said "take out a loan, you'll make the money back once you start living your best life.
Dear reader I didn't take out the loan, but I did 'invest' in a short course with her and man do I regret it now.

Partly as I can see that the people on it are vulnerable and desperate for miracles (like me I guess) and also because she keeps spouting her tinfoil hat theories about CV which I don't think is appropriate and is making me very twitchy indeed.

I do think with the pandemic, job insecurity and spending too much time online as there is nothing else to do, people are lost within themselves and probably feel like they could do with guidance. But there is so many 'online improvement / Level up / be your best self' courses been taught or sold by people with no qualifications whatsoever and its so toxic.

As a rule before taking advice of anyone or paying coaches for anything, look at how their life in that area is and it usually tells you what you need to know.

Social media can be so deceitful and anyone who has a bit of photoshop knowledge can make fake bank statements to prove that they are a millionaire. Pose with someone else's flash car and pose outside someone else's nice house.

It is really toxic and does pick on people at their most vulnerable moments as if you are doing well in life you wouldn't need their services!

@Hufflepuffmamma be as judgey as you like about these charlatans. They tend to fall into categories as far as I can see. 1) The coaching pyramid schemes where a “coaching product” or system of beliefs is sold and people are recruited in to “sell” the coaching product which no one really understands and its entire philosophy could be written on the back of a beer mat (cancel that, on the back of a Prosecco bottle label). It’s a pure recruitment device and success is possible if the “coach” has a sizeable network to tap into, hence the success of the Z Lister thanks to their followers. Operates like a cult and is, I think, quite damaging. 2) The “mindset” coach, full of Law of Attraction bollocks, a bolt on parasite on the backside of scammy MLMs, this “coaching”is designed to distract the MLM sign up from the fact they’re haemorrhaging money and are on a hiding to nothing. Their mission is to exploit the sunk cost fallacy and keep the MLM victim plugging away at a “success” they’ve been told is just around the corner. If the MLM victim is not succeeding then the coach will tell them they didn’t want it enough and that they are in some way faulty, and then sell them the next level coaching programme. Rinse and repeat. Cult-like too. 3) the life coach, not pyramid scheme related but again of no fixed expertise. I’ve come across a few who have fallen into it, all in wealthy circles and they just life coach each other as far as I can see. They appear to offer a sort of Boden-eque hippydom with a lot of expensive essential oils, a bit of crystal dangling and some cut and paste philosophy often based in (irrational) positive thinking and self love, and occasionally getting their very good friend (another life coachy type of no fixed career) to pop round and Feng Shui your kitchen or tidy your knicker drawer as a path to enlightenment.

It must be frustrating for coaches who are genuine professional people offering guidance and expertise, as however far away they are from the above the term “coach” is somewhat tainted in many minds. I have the same problem as a psychotherapist, where some of the above types sometimes stray to call themselves a therapist and of course “mental health” is such an on trend concept and so easily sorted by sharing a trite pink tinted meme about loving yourself.

Next time I’ll try adding paragraphs

I think the coaches I’ve seen are people with experience in that field. Coaching other people who work in whatever field. But what I don’t get, is if you’re so good at coaching, why don’t you coach yourself? Why step out of your job to become a coach. I can’t quite figure it out. And it really sounds like there’s a huge variation in what coach means anyway. There should be a different word.

I thought this was about coaches as in buses I’m get my coat.

Yes it is just coaching coaches to be coaches.

I have entertained the idea of contacting one of them for an actual coaching session to see what they manage to pull out their arse. But decided it would probably be too much of an expensive experiment.

There are some people who are genuinely trying to set themselves up as life or business coaches (though I dont really agree with the concept of life coaching - I think it's a bit wish washy generic advice crap, and some of these business coaches obviously have 0 business experience). However these mlm ones are ruining the reputations of those who are actually wanting to be genuine coaches.

youokhun Excellent post, paragraphs or not.

Basically, if you see any of these warning signs:

1. Picture of "coach" laughing on an empty beach
2. Talk of "manifesting" things
3. Nothing concrete, just vague talk about working on your mindset

.....it's a pyramid-shaped scam.

Oh and also the BIG SELL - If you are serious you will “invest” 29,999 in their coaching ... (I got quoted an amount like this once to be coached)

Is that nearly £30,000 a joke or some sort of mistake?

If not I was running the wrong sort of company ... or perhaps not

@gwenneh gladly!! I actually feel so much better because of all the responses. I really thought I would be put bang to rights here on MN and I was being an arsehole- as I’ve said many genuine coaches but the 9,000 get a loan thing - I’ve seen it so many times -AWFUL! I’m sorry on your behalf .

@Puzzledandpissedoff - ok so I got quoted 20,000- honestly. Which is ridiculous - but I suppose if you get one person to pay it out of a 1000 that’s a decent wage really....

I 100% know there are genuine decent coaches in the world. I’m also someone into really positivity - but not as a way to con others out of amazing amounts of cash for something they could likely get in a lovely book from Amazon or somewhere . Also real positivity has a lot to do with mass amounts of introspection and reflection AND respect for others - ironically....

I feel SO liberated by this thread. I can’t tell you. Thanks posters.

It’s a weirdly unregulated business.
Really needs to be tightened up

Omg I couldn't agree with you more OP. I'm in a fb group for female entrepreneurs and over the last year I've noticed more bullshit language creeping in about "manifesting" and "mindset". Whenever I challenge it I just get more made up sounding buzz words back. One poor woman in there was complaining that she's paying for a business coach but can't implement her guidance because she's so over whelmed looking after her kids. Her solution for this was to try and find a parenting support coach to help her manage her kids better in order to focus on the first coach! Like, just spend the money on a fucking baby sitter instead surely? The idea of hiring a coach to help you with your coach is like a fucked up modern day version of the "old woman who swallowed a fly" rhyme.

Wow, I’ve never seen this on my FB page. I don’t do Instagram or Twitter. I’ve heard my youngest talking some manifesting bollocks and I told her as much.

Im an OT and apparently this means im qualified to work as a coach according to an advert on Facebook. This nothing employment based about my work partially coz I specialise in Paediatrics. They are idiots.

I’ve been reading a lot about these type of instacoaches via Styled by Susie > Main School Hustle > Sarah Akwisombe > Llewelyn Davies and then other characters coming out of the woodwork. It fascinates me in an Eastenders plot kind of a way and seems ripe for more plot twists now that Seasons in Colour have said she’ll investigate from a financial fraud point of view. I feel truly sad for anyone who has sunk money into these get rich quick schemes. I’m pleased a thread had been started here.

I’ve also found the Sarah Akwisombe saga fascinating and sad, where her MLM went bad and hundreds of women were left out of pocket. It opened my eyes to the world of coaches coaching coaches to be coaches, and the exploitation of vulnerable women.

I'm a coach. Got an MA etc etc. Work with organisations. Keep up with CPD, up to date with developments..neurobiology etc....Been doing it for 15 years. All work from recommendations.

I hate them with a vengeance. Making LinkedIn unusable.
Offering to coach me to get more clients when they don't have any actual 'real' clients themselves. Also, gives those of us who work hard and care about delivering value a bad name.