To think there’s nothing wrong with cross breeds?

[sophialagiraffe]

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with cross breeds, whether that’s lurchers or cockerpoos. People are allowed to like what they like.

What DOES matter is where the dog comes from. But all this sneering about “mongrels” is fucking nasty and says more about the poster than the dog.

Most people don’t want a Crufts champion, they want a pet.

All of this can be said for purebred dogs too though. The idea that all purebred dogs come from reputable breeders is laughable. The idea that all owners of purebred dogs have money to pay for vets is also ridiculous

It’s less likely you’ll get huge commercial kennels breeding huge amounts of pedigree dogs though, as you’d need stud and bitch of every breed. Where it isn’t uncommon for crosses, you just need one poodle stud, a load of bitches, and churn the trendy crosses out. Far cheaper, no limit on the litters each bitch can have, and customers queuing up to pay £££££ for each pup.

@VanillaAndOrange no need to get French Bulldogs neutered for them to die out. They find it difficult to breed naturally because of their narrow hips and are artificially inseminated. And then birth is usually by Caesarian section, again because of the narrow hips and large head. They are a breed that shouldn't exist but they do because humans interfered and created a chimera dog and all the poor health conditions to accompany it.

A dog is a dog to me, whether pedigree, cross-bred or mongrel. I'm not snobby about it but I do care about animal welfare.

There's nothing wrong with cross-breeds but there are too many, commanding silly amounts of money and are often bred purely for profit with scant regard to well-being.

This, a thousand times over.

Health problems sure, because no pedigree dogs have those do they?

Oh, wait.

I think you’re being deliberately obtuse. Pedigrees have issues, because they too-shock, horror-are overbred and not health tested. The health testing is key, to try to guarantee a decent future for potentially 12 puppies or more. Lab puppies are the most numerically registered dog and are known for hip issues. Some breeders put profit before health. Currently, lab puppies are being sold for over £2.5K. Some breeders are not doing this for the good of the breed and have probably never heard of breeding co-efficients.

That is why I think many people go on about ‘designer mongrels’ at stupid prices, because buyers will pay and are swayed by social media/designer non-shedding whatever poo cross is current.

The idea of sneering at a crossbreed/Heinz57/mongrel wouldn't occur to me.
Same here.

What I do have an issue with is the trend for crossing all sorts (often puppy farmers or back yard breeders who haven't bothered to do the research and take appropriate healh checks),giving it a silly blended name, and then selling them for a small fortune.

I then find it hilarious that people get upset if others point out that their cavapoopspanizhupug is a mongrel.

I’m a big fan of mongrels (they’re the most natural and often the healthiest). But I think people can be taken for a ride when paying large sums for cross breeds as, although they’re not mongrels, neither are they pedigrees.

I say this without snobbery as the proud owner of two moggies, one a rescue (it didn’t even cross my mind to buy pedigree cats). I did have a well-bred pedigree dog but he was rescued from death row (he had behavioural issues from being abused) and his breed was totally irrelevant to anything.

Such a weird issue that only people in the UK care about. I have only owned purebreds, but in the U.S. mutts ("crossbreeds ") are generally acknowledged to be much healthier and live longer than purebreds. Just a personal choice with no stigma.

@wolfiefan sorry what I meant was of all the poodle cross dogs I know they all have the same type of coat, which was important to me.

All of this can be said for purebred dogs too though. The idea that all purebred dogs come from reputable breeders is laughable. The idea that all owners of purebred dogs have money to pay for vets is also ridiculous

If you have no money for vet fees/insurance you have no business owning any pet.

And of course there are unreputable breeders of pedigree breeds. There are many, many unreputable breeders of pedigrees but the fact remains there are some reputable pedigree breeders. It might be difficult to find one but it's not impossible. There are exactly zero resposible breeders of crossbreeds/mongrels. All crossbreeds are bred accidentally or for the sole purpose of making money. You cannot make a profit from a responsibly bred puppy. The health tests, vet checks, initial fleaing/worming, the food, the costs of registration etc outweigh any profit that could be made.

If you want a non shedding dog get a poodle. If you want a crossbreed go to a rescue. Stop paying ££££ so that dogs can suffer.

@hatedbytheDailyMail

If they know anything at all about dogs, they'll know the difference between a cross breed and a mongrel. They do know the difference, they just like the opportunity to sneer at people who haven't done things like they have

Mongrel: dog whose parents were different breeds.
Cross breed: dog whose parents were different breeds.

So, can you explain the difference? Apart from paying thousands for a dog called a crossbreed instead of a mongrel.....

Lots of people use them interchangably, especially with dogs, but in animal breeding generally the connotations are quite different. The fact that many peopel who think they are expert about dog breeding don't realise this is rather telling.

A straight cross between two purebred parents is a known quantity, and while some crosses have more stable results than others, you have a good sense of what the results are likely to be. This is why it's very common with cows, sheep, chickens, horses, to do first generation crosses for particular types of uses. There can be a certain amount of hybrid vigour but also the offspring often have characteristics of both parents that are desirable.

Mongrel or Heinz 27 or mutt really should be used to refer to a mix with three or more ancestors or just unknown parentage. This is not as predictable as a cross, if for no other reason than you may not know what is in there, but also because the genetics that come out in any individual might be quite varied. But often they are the healthiest animals and can be very hardy and thrifty too.

@RiverMeadow but poodle cross dogs don’t all have the same coat. So if it’s really important to you then a cross isn’t the best option. You’ve simply been lucky.
I’m allergic to cats and dogs. Rescue mog kittens I seem to have become allergic to as they reach adulthood. (I take meds. They’re going nowhere!) I spent two years getting up close and as personal as possible to the dog breed of my choice before committing.
It’s not that I’m “against” crosses at all. But people often don’t care where they come from, claim they are hypoallergenic (no dog is) or that they are automatically healthier as they are a cross (untrue)
Unfortunately the vast majority of breeders in the U.K. are clueless pet owners who don’t health test or commercial breeders/puppy farmers.
KC is not the body to do something about this. There is no political will.
People are selfish and want the cute pup when they want it. You only have to look at all the threads about getting a pup at the start of the summer holidays.

Such a weird issue that only people in the UK care about. I have only owned purebreds, but in the U.S. mutts ("crossbreeds ") are generally acknowledged to be much healthier and live longer than purebreds. Just a personal choice with no stigma

Most people have no issues with mutts/cross breeds. The issue is with the growing market of crossing anything with anything, doing no health testing and calling it a silly name so that owners (who have also not bothered to show due dilience) can spend thousands on a dog and insist everyone validates their claim that they have a trendy new breed dog.

When I was little, our neighbours had a collie cross and one of my aunties had a Heinz 57. Both lovely dogs. I'm sure today the same dogs would be considered a collie cross or a cross breed/mongrel by some and a collieyorkielabrapugpoo by others, with the latter owners getting most upset and calling people snobby if anyone said it was anything other than a super rare designer dog.

What people spend on dogs is bloody ridiculous.

Most of the breeds have very specific traits for the jobs they were bred for (eg gun dogs), totally pointless to your average family with 2.4 kids wanting a friendly pet.

Dogs have been over bred to a state of ridiculously poor health.

@Wolfiefan I know, I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just saying of the 5 or so poodle type dogs I know they all have the same type of coat.

@bluebluezoo

People like cockapoos because they hope to have a spaniel like temperament (although those can be dodgy they are often nice dogs) with the intelligence and hair texture of a poodle

Statistically this isn’t going to happen in most cases.

What if they get the temperament of a poodle and the hair texture of the spaniel?

This is what people don’t think about.

And as many posters have said, it isn’t the dogs we have a problem with. They are lovely, good pets, and if people choose one that’s fine.

It’s the fact that crosses are more likely to be puppy farmed, and that many owners think they’re getting a spaniel with a poodle coat and haven’t done the research to know this might not be the case..

Yes, the lack of awareness that the coat isn't what they might expect is a problem. Though there are crosses that have been stabilised in some cases.

I don't think crosses are more likely to be puppy farmed, and in any case, the KC approach has done as much damage to dog breeds as any puppy farm ever did.

Their (very recent, resisted, and a result of pressure) moves to take some steps notwithstanding, this is the organisation that has created the need for genetic testing and other testing which has pushed the price of puppies sky high so that it is lucrative to farm them. The concept of the closed breed registry coupled with the breed standards and how ring is what has caused the problem in the first place.

Advice for anyone considering it.
Don’t get a cross because all the (5) you know have the sort of coat you want.
This is the issue.
Too many people met a nice poodle cross once and want that cute teddy bear for themselves.
Too few people starting with what they can actually offer an animal and then what would be best suited to them.

We've always had pedigrees until our current dog who is a wonderfully perfect crossbreed, the best dog we've ever - not that I'm biased of course!!

She is the result of a chance liaison between gun dogs out on a shoot day, we call her a love child. Her parents are both champions, mum a supreme breed champion and dad represents England in field trials and is of strong competition lineage, so she's from good stock. Although mum's owner was understandably horrified that her supreme champion had a litter of cross breeds.

A straight cross between two purebred parents is a known quantity

There is nothing known about "straight crosses". A cross of any pedigrees can inherit both desireable and undesirable qualities from any parent. A curly, non shedding coat is not a guarentee in a 'poo cross.

happyoodles.com/2020/04/is-an-oodle-dog-right-for-you/

Hybrid vigour aka the idea that crossbreeds are healthier is a myth.

www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/the-myth-of-hybrid-vigor-in-dogsis-a-myth

There are exactly zero resposible breeders of crossbreeds/mongrels. All crossbreeds are bred accidentally or for the sole purpose of making money.

Where would you get such a bizarre idea?

"sorry what I meant was of all the poodle cross dogs I know they all have the same type of coat, which was important to me"

You can't know very many!

@Wolfiefan Advice for anyone considering it.
Don’t get a cross because all the (5) you know have the sort of coat you want.
This is the issue.
Too many people met a nice poodle cross once and want that cute teddy bear for themselves.
Too few people starting with what they can actually offer an animal and then what would be best suited to them.

Not at all. The 5 dogs I've made reference to I've met after I bought my dog, I was purely making that point just as you mentioned about the coat!

I didn't ever meet a 'nice poodle cross' before I bought my dog, nor was I bothered about this either. I researched both breeds after starting with 'what I could offer an animal' and decided that this was the right breed for me. I don't mind if you agree with that or not or if my dog is a mongrel. She was bought as a pet, and a lovely one she has turned out to be. I couldn't care less if the dog is classed as a designer dog, cross breed, Heinz 57 or anything else, she is my pet and turned out to be everything I wanted.

Why do I feel like I need to justify having a cross breed to people on the internet?! Bonkers!

@SmokedDuck I get the idea from the fact that the only semi-ethical reason to breed a dog is to carry on a specific desirable bloodline such as a champion show or sporting dog. Breeding for profit immediately qualifies as a breeder as a bad breeder because it is simply not possible to breed responsibly and make a profit.

There is literally no reason other than money to breed a crossbreed. They can't be shown, they cannot compete in working breed trials. They have no desirable bloodline to carry on.

The issue is not that it’s a cross. But that it’s not a breed. You don’t know what you’re getting. Why not a cocker. Or a poodle?
Because decent breeders do it because they love the breed they have chosen. They want to help preserve it and ensure future healthy generations.
It’s not about pedigree snobbery. It’s about crosses being bred by people ONLY interested in money. Or clueless pet breeders.
It’s about a cross not being a breed.
It’s about people not knowing what they’re taking on. Groomers FB posts about poodle cross coats being a case in point.
Unfortunately until people take some responsibility and stop being selfish then the puppy farmers won’t stop.
KC won’t police pedigree breeds. They certainly won’t take on crosses.
I have always had rescue cats. I baulk at buying a pup. The ONLY way I can justify it is to do due diligence into the breed, to what I’m getting and to the breeder. Because most are not good. And to continue to volunteer for rescue!

I don't think there's anything wrong per se with crossbreeds. People sneer at doodles etc, but a lot of modern breeds were created by crossing a few different existing breeds together to create a dog with a certain set of characteristics. Is there some arbitrary point in time at which the domestic dog has finished evolving and new breeds no longer count? Breeds have always been created to serve a certain purpose, and as the world changes, our needs change. For example, the English Bull Terrier was created by crossing various breeds, including fighting breeds, to create a "gentler" companion dog. They served (and still serve) a purpose. Allergies are really common nowadays, so we're attempting to create hypoallergenic breeds. They're serving a purpose.

Where the issue lies, is that these trendy crossbreeds tend to attract puppy farmers and disreputable breeders. It doesn't have be like that though (and that's also true for pure breeds such as pugs, French bulldogs etc).

I have a crossbreed and have zero issues. in fact the last three dogs I've had have being cross breeds, all rescued or rehomed after having multiple owners before us so no
Idea where they came from. They have are all lived to an old age with no health issues. the other is still young but healthy with a lovely temperament.

Allergies are really common nowadays, so we're attempting to create hypoallergenic breeds. They're serving a purpose

Poodles exist. As do Bichons, Portugese water dogs, chinese crested, Italian Greyhounds....

There is no legitimate reason to create yet another breed.