Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

What Gerbil said.

Also,grandiose, manic or entitled seeming behaviour can actually be a recognised feature of some mental health diagnoses.e.g. Bipolar, borderline, narcissistic etc. Not everyone with these diagnoses acts like a Karen, but plenty do.
As someone with one of these diagnoses, I do get a bit about the concept of all mental illness presenting as timid little mice who wouldn't say boo to a goose. It presents differently in all of us, and aside from having mental illness, we do also have diverse character types e.g. Some get aggressive when anxious (fight or flight) , others cry, or run or start hyperventilating. Some of us are strong, bolshy, characters, others are more quiet.

@VladmirsPoutine

the sentiment shouldn't be lost because ONE country has had a few instances of women possibly being a bit racist.

This is a remarkable statement. ONE country? And at that 'a few' who've only been 'a bit' racist. Truly magnificent statement.

Oh do stop with the obtuse faux shock, it's boring.

The US has led the way on the Karen movement, there certainly isn't an epidemic of angry middle aged women with bobbed hair upsetting black men anywhere else. And as I say, I follow this thing called statistics, rather than Tik Tok videos taken out of context. Statistics tell us MEN are the big perpetrators when it comes to harrasment, violence and racism. About 98% of those crimes are committed by men I believe.

But soooo much easier to attack women, right?

I don't think Karen is sexist. It only applies to a certain type of woman behaving in a certain way. I think it's a useful term to call out a specific type of white privilege that hasn't previously been challenged.

@VladmirsPoutine

I truly cannot believe that the U.S has been described as having a 'few' people who've only been a 'bit' racist. My god!!

Ugh I HATE IT when people make things up.

I DID NOT say this about the US - I said it about so-called Karen's within the US.

But you knew that, didn't you.

MissLucyeyelebarrow

'Boomer works in a similar way for economic/class solidarity across generations. Much safer for the Establishment if people at the bottom of the pile, economically, are at each others' throats, rather than uniting to demand better social conditions.'

It certainly does.

It's also ridiculously unhelpful.

It flattens and empties the different experience of 'boomers' and, in so doing, ^marginalises further those who are already marginalised.

Now is the time to recover and amplify the diverse stories and lives of people marginalised during their own lives: women, non-heterosexual people; activists and progressives, people of colour ...

Is my mother's immigrant story the same story as that of Richard Branson? Do they have similar social and economic capital? Of course not - but 'boomer' collapses them both into one meaningless term.

And the life expectancy for some classes of 'boomer' have decreased. How does the stupid 'boomer' narrative allow us to even begin to talk about that.

It is a term that announces only a seeming political awareness, whilst simultaneously vacating itself of political articulacy.

It is politically dumb.

@Millenialcunt

And this:

Many of the Karen clips I have seen so seem to feature exhausted, neurotic women rather than entitled ones.

Someone literally excusing the behaviour of Karens as 'exhausted' & 'neurotic'.

To be fair discussing 'Karen' on Mumsnet is akin to joining a vegan forum to extol the virtues of eating a bacon sandwich on a miserable Sunday morning.

@Helmetbymidnight

Tbh it makes people look like more of a Karen when they get so outraged over it.

not at all outraged over it. I've just noticed the dim-wits who use it are misogynistic cunts.

Ooh how very 'Karen' of me.

Love it and totally agree.

[quote VladmirsPoutine]@Millenialcunt

And this:

Many of the Karen clips I have seen so seem to feature exhausted, neurotic women rather than entitled ones.

Someone literally excusing the behaviour of Karens as 'exhausted' & 'neurotic'.

To be fair discussing 'Karen' on Mumsnet is akin to joining a vegan forum to extol the virtues of eating a bacon sandwich on a miserable Sunday morning.[/quote]
Fancy, women being in their own side and refusing to accept misogyny, on a website made for women.

Shocking that is. Did anybody get a man's permission to have this stance? Anyone?

@Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie

I don't think Karen is sexist. It only applies to a certain type of woman behaving in a certain way. I think it's a useful term to call out a specific type of white privilege that hasn't previously been challenged.

Is being assertive and asking to see the manager related to privilege or skin colour? I wouldn't have thought so as I see assertive women from all classes and colours. Many black and Asian women or working class women have had to get used to fighting for their rights, and don't have the luxury of being passive and staying quiet. And it's actually a good thing for a woman to be genuinely assertive and polite whilst doing it.

not at all outraged over it. I've just noticed the dim-wits who use it are misogynistic cunts.

Ooh how very 'Karen' of me

Brava!

I wonder what bothers these misogynists more - that 'Karen's' don't care about being called Karen or that they're being called out on their thinly veiled misogyny

If history has taught us anything it's that people do NOT like women being assertive and will use any trope, insult and agenda to smack us down when we raise our heads too high.

Absolutely! It means bitch doesn’t it but because it’s “Karen” it’s totally fine to say. And it’s constantly used on SM to belittle female commenters who men disagree with. How can people see the term as anything but sexism?!

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows I expect DH can write us a note.
By the by, he thinks Karen is awfully misogynistic as well.
A man has spoken.
The end.

@LadyWithTheBraid I don't understand the term to refer to assertive women. I understand it to refer specifically to upper middle class white women who exercise their privilege to be nasty and complain about things that are trivial just to get a kick out of exercising their power (eg: treating waitresses poorly). It's a way of calling out their power trip and telling them to shut up.

Anyone can be an arsehole in their own terms, and they don't need the backing of society to do it. Anyone who is fighting for the right to call people something is usually very overinvested in the characteristics of the person they are insulting. Most people who feel relatively secure in life don't have to bother riling others about their sex, choice of sexual partner, skin colour, perceived wealth etc.These are angry people often, and best avoided.

Don’t conflate N* with Karen it’s not even nearly the same thing

Woeful attempt at a derail.

You're just desperate to shift the discussion to racism, aren't you? Why does talking about misogyny make you and VladmirsPoutrine so uncomfortable?

Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie the thread is full of examples of it being used to tell women to shut the fuck up.
At least they aren't saying "burn the witch" I suppose.

It's amazing how mental illness is being brought into this for the Karens on camera . I don't think the bristol woman on bike callkng the black man a thief for cleaning his car is mentally unstable. This sort of excuse is never afforded to people of colour. They shoot up a school or church and get sympathy. There is a pattern and it's starting to repeat on this thread. For the sake of fairnes , the excuses being given here is jarring at best..

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown but it's mainly used to call out privileged white women. The meme is always a white women, middle aged, privileged. It's not all women.

Sorry, who are the white women who shoot up a church or school and get sympathy?

When was it suggested that mental illness was a reason for racist abuse?

[quote Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie]@LadyWithTheBraid I don't understand the term to refer to assertive women. I understand it to refer specifically to upper middle class white women who exercise their privilege to be nasty and complain about things that are trivial just to get a kick out of exercising their power (eg: treating waitresses poorly). It's a way of calling out their power trip and telling them to shut up.[/quote]
Ok. I may have seen different Karen videos to you. Admittedly I'm not on TikTok, but plenty on Facebook video channel but have had to stop watching because am sick of seeing middle aged women bullied by iPhone wielding basement dwelling neckbeards. The videos I have seen aren't showing middle or upper class women.

Many of the women in these videos are overweight (so most likely not rich) and with high street clothing brands. Nothing about them screams well off. When I first saw these videos I immediately thought possibly these women are targeted because they would be considered as hillbillies?

The exception being the Amy Cooper one and she really doesn't fit the criteria of a typical Karen. And even if she did, I believe racist behaviour should be called what it is, and that is racism. Not Karen, or entitled or something completely nothing to do with racism.

I think the rise of Karen is linked to the #MeToo movement. We weemin were getting ahead of ourselves by holding men to account, but don't worry - we are back at each other's throats again. Normal service has resumed.

[quote Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie]@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown but it's mainly used to call out privileged white women. The meme is always a white women, middle aged, privileged. It's not all women.[/quote]
In what way are the women privileged? I mean they have white privilege, but you've said "white woman, middle aged, privileged" so you must mean something else.