Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

Your biggest mistake was listening to your 42-year-old friend, tbh. I'm 32 and even I know I'm FAR too old for TikTok. Every glimpse I've ever caught has induced too much cringe to bear.

Let the younguns have their thing. I don't think teenagers moaning about older people is anything new. Just a different vehicle now.

@Proudboomer

And just what did this group of middle aged women do. Looks like a pretty standard holiday snap but just because they are middle aged and white it is ok to turn them into a meme

Well, they're clearly over 40 so obviously they should spend the rest of their lives locked in their kitchens in case they offend any men looking for someone to have sex with.

How very dare we women leave the house after middle age has struck!

Yeah and you'll see people who constantly fling the word at others insist on using it even when black people are complaining it's being misused. It's mostly the same people now complaining that Karen is being misused and demanding an end to it. The irony

No one really knows where the meme originated, but it has certainly always been used by both black and white people, so you can lay off with the cultural appropriation shit.

Karen is the latest a long line of insults that have been used to keep women in their place. While I certainly wouldn't claim that it's the equivalent of the N word, both women and black people are punished for transgressions by being insulted. There's quite a lot of crossover, actually - society punishes both groups for perceived aggression, assertion and for wanting equal rights.

The big difference is that the posters on this thread defending the use of Karen would, I'm sure, never defend the use of racially-charged insults. But misogyny is still OK.

Wanted to complain about a health and safety aspects in our building, DH told me to not mention it to the neighbours else I risk being called a Karen..

I was baffled. I’m not white or middle aged and this was my first attempt at being confident about something I care about and affects me..

Definately misogyny. I still went ahead with it

Rape and sexual assault,
FGM
The sex pay gap,
Appalling medical understanding of the menopause

You can't complain about those things! Just move along quietly pls.

@Cadent

I'm seeing lots of young black women on YouTube call out racism, and for whatever reason, being able to call the perpetrator Karen or Ken to their face gives them strength.

I think empowering young black women to speak out against racism is the priority here, rather than my hurt feelings as a 40 yo.

OK, yes that should be the priority. But In the cases I see it being used in the UK in particular (and in the original examples given by the OP) it isn't being used by young black women to call out racism.

1. Young black woman uses a word to call out racism as an easily understood description for what is happening= fine
2. Man (or boy) uses the same word in a completely different circumstance to shut down a woman = not fine. I will criticise that.

1. African-American woman coins the term "woke" to explain a way of looking at how they are treated through the lens of racism and intersectionality = obviously fine
2. Daily Mail writer uses the word "woke" to sum up all that is wrong with the new Dr Who - Fuck Of. 22 year old Brocialist uses the word "woke" to explain to his girlfriend why she should agree with him that OF is empowering = Fuck of to the far side of fuck.

People, often with openly or secretly regressive views will repurpose language and words to suite their own agenda and attack the people they want to attack. Why is complaining about this not valid? I don't think it is undermining the original purposes of anti-racism campaigners at all.

If I get told 'shut your face, Karen' I tell them they are lazy, misogynistic, ageist and sexist. I also tell them to try having an original thought instead of following everyone else, like sheep, in repeating the slur.

I loathe hearing my own name used as a slur against me because I'm 50+, female and dare to express my opinions.

I immediately discount the opinion of anyone who is happy to use Karen as an insult. Ignorant arseholes.

@LetMeBubble

Wanted to complain about a health and safety aspects in our building, DH told me to not mention it to the neighbours else I risk being called a Karen..

I was baffled. I’m not white or middle aged and this was my first attempt at being confident about something I care about and affects me..

Definately misogyny. I still went ahead with it

Good for you @LetMeBubble - I bet it felt empowering!

Basically, if you're a woman and no one is trying to shut you up, it's because they don't perceive you as having any power.

I’m not sure about the Karen/racism connection. So now the woman shouting at the manager is also by virtue of being white and middle aged a racist.

It's evident you're not on Twitter. These are news stories from the States. A white woman contacted the police about a man who asked her to put her dog on a lead in Central Park. She phoned the police and told them that he was threatening her. He recorded the incident. This is very serious due to the fact that black men and people of colour in the States are often shot for doing much less. That's the kind of incident people are talking about.

It's a use of white privilege to assert power and control which has very serious consequences.

another where a white woman asked a black man to leave the pool that was part of his apartment complex. another where a white woman prevents a man from entering his apartment and follows him to his door. She sounds pissed though.

The woke brigade think any woman older than them is a boomer and feel anger or resentment that apparently they had it easy and blame the boomers for all their woes (housing, jobs etc).
This ties in perfectly with the Karen insult.

poppyzbrite - why not just call them racists? Why Karen?

It turns people off listening.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

poppyzbrite - why not just call them racists? Why Karen?

It turns people off listening.

I believe the Karen thing began in Africa, where a white woman called Karen, acted in this way towards the people she lived around. That became part of the parlance and moved to the States where it was used by African Americans.

Due to social media the meaning has changed but at core, it's a woman who is using white privilege to assert power and control.

@VladmirsPoutine

Women have never been in power.

Precisely which is why when people say things like 'WhAt aBoUt tHe MeN!?! tHeY ArE soOO MuCh WorSe" it really doesn't carry. Karen-ism refers to a specific type of behaviour wielded by (white) women.

I don't understand you're point?

Women have never been in power so they can't point out the damage done by men? Eh?

I believe the Karen thing began in Africa, where a white woman called Karen, acted in this way towards the people she lived around. That became part of the parlance and moved to the States where it was used by African Americans. Due to social media the meaning has changed but at core, it's a woman who is using white privilege to assert power and control

Jesus, are you really naive enough to believe that kind of simplistic nonsense?

No one knows the origin of the meme, It's been used in all sorts of ways, including by black people to highlight racism, but no one group has ownership of it.

Maybe before trying to bully women into accepting misogynistic insults by accusing them of racism if they object, you could spend 2 minutes on Google, getting your facts straight?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I believe the Karen thing began in Africa, where a white woman called Karen, acted in this way towards the people she lived around. That became part of the parlance and moved to the States where it was used by African Americans. Due to social media the meaning has changed but at core, it's a woman who is using white privilege to assert power and control

Jesus, are you really naive enough to believe that kind of simplistic nonsense?

No one knows the origin of the meme, It's been used in all sorts of ways, including by black people to highlight racism, but no one group has ownership of it.

Maybe before trying to bully women into accepting misogynistic insults by accusing them of racism if they object, you could spend 2 minutes on Google, getting your facts straight?

Actually I heard it on a BBC news programme where it was discussed. You're being really aggressive and need to tone it down.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

This is why when talking anybody acting in an entitled fashion, "Dick" tends to be the word I find most helpful.

So, calling someone a “Dick” a male name is okay. Calling someone a “Karen” is not?

Actually both “real” names, so no different, but one is more acceptable than the other?

I believe the Karen thing began in Africa, where a white woman called Karen, acted in this way towards the people she lived around. That became part of the parlance and moved to the States where it was used by African Americans.
This is embarrassing.

Someone on here sourced the Karen phenomenon to incel groups.
"Karen took the kids".
It was a user who'd heavily researched incel as part of her job (sorry, can't remember the name) so I believe her over that fairytale sounding origin above.

Use in the UK is primarily about ageism and sexism.
Vile, vile phenomenon.

You're being really aggressive and need to tone it down

More policing of how women are allowed to speak? At least you're consistent.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

You're being really aggressive and need to tone it down

More policing of how women are allowed to speak? At least you're consistent.

Likewise. It's easy to throw stones. It's more difficult to come up with a coherent argument.

Is ‘being aggressive & need to tone it down’. a version of check your tone?

It's easy to throw stones. It's more difficult to come up with a coherent argument

Coherent like your Nasty-White-Woman-Who-Was-Mean-To-All-The-Lovely-Africans story?

You've just outed yourself as a numpty. Own it.

And I've got some really bad news for you about the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy.

Here's the Wikipedia page, including the origins of the usage. It talks about Reddit (but not about an actual person called Karen in a specific African country)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(pejorative)

The point of Karen is to disrupt the line of learning from one generation of women to another and to destroy potential lines of solidarity.

This is such a powerful statement and the sentiment shouldn't be lost because ONE country has had a few instances of women possibly being a bit racist.