To ask people to please stop contributing to the overbreeding of dogs in lockdown?

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

I've posted this in "doghouse" too but maybe it will be of benefit to put it on here too.

I looked on gumtree. I shouldnt have but i did and now I'm pissed off!

I mean what the hell is this?! £2500 for a mix of random breeds, so blatantly an attempt to cash in on lockdown by breeding family dogs. No care will have been taken over health testing etc

Its not just this advert either.

FRUGS! I mean, never mind that it's a stupid f-ing name, but it's pug crossed with a French bulldog. Wonderful idea! Let's take 2 breeds who can't breath and make shit loads of money from them.

SHUGS! I'm guessing here as the advert wasn't specific but I'm assuming a shitzu crossed with a pug?

DACHOUND - If you're going to sell it you should be able to spell it!

More cockerpoos thank you can shake a stick at.

Puppies around 4 months old being sold for £2000 (obviously a lockdown purchase and they're trying to get their money back/make a bit more)

Even normal breeds which would have been fairly cheap pre lockdown (labrador, border collie etc) going for thousands of pounds.

What is wrong with people?! And when will this end?

Please please don't be someone who adds to this problem. Its not just gumtree, even some supposedly "reputable" breeders are now charging double or triple the price for puppies than they were before lockdown.

If people keep buying at this price it will encourage more and more irresponsible breeders who are just looking to make money.

Dog theft is a real problem (in my area) at the moment and it all stems from the same thing.

Once "work from home if you can" finishes so so many young dogs will be chucked into rescue centres or just onto the side of a road.

@ GitswithWits fair enough. :-) but some breeders who consider themselves to be reputable have increased their prices. I know someone who was waiting for a puppy and she brought it home just before lockdown, the breeder contacted her and said she would give her £700 if she returned it as she could now sell it for £2k. the woman told her where to go, but this has been going on even within the “reputable” breeders world.

I've read through the responses and it seems that those who disagree are either
A) the ones who are breeding the dogs and selling on at high prices.
Or B) have bought a lockdown puppy. Crossbreed or mongrel.
Hmmm...interesting!
Mmm, wrong in my case, I totally disagree with you and don't fall under either category.

But let's keep labelling people, seems you get some satisfsction in it.

@xelam I would consider a breeder who hasn’t upped their prices to be a reputable breeder. The ones I have issue with are the ones who were selling puppies for perhaps £1k or less, who have doubled their prices and more because of lockdown in order to profiteer from the fact that a lot of people went out and bought a puppy.

It may be controversial but I think puppy owners need to be shamed into not buying these puppies, I look forward to the day when owning a crossbreed who hasn't been rescued is a mark of shame.

The two statements here are separate.

I believe that people should be ashamed if they are buying a £2k mongrell/crossbreed whatever you like to call it from what they know is a puppy farm, or at the very least know could be.

But there is no shame in owning a crossbreed in itself. E.g. springers and cockers have been bred for years, labradors are routinely crossed with golden retrievers, and golden retrievers are routinely crossed with German Shepherds as guide dogs.

There are even reasons to own some of the poodle crosses.

What needs to happen is that the stupid names need to disappear, and the belief that your getting a fancy dog because it has an oodle in the name.

Mongrels have forever been and will forever be. There’s no shame in owning one.

And frankly most rescues aren’t fit for purpose.

@AlternativePerspective agree, nothing wrong with a mongrel as long as you're going into it with your eyes open and know what you're buying. Every other dog around here is a somethingdoodle (apparently all named either Milly, Molly or Poppy) and yes, some of them are fake-designer dogs but I met the loveliest little 6 month old pup the other day, quite small with a full curly coat, her owner said she was supposed to be a (can't remember - one of these doodle crosses) 'but no doubt she's a total mongrel'. She was the prettiest thing, super sweet and just wanted to do zoomies with every dog.

Not sure why this thread is so focused on price - surely we need to think about should humans breed dogs for our own pleasure? As lovely as they are of course should we even be doing it? I think it’s a bigger question and highlighted at the moment as it’s now so widespread

I don't agree that we should only rescue. Pre DC I rescued and while I loved that dog with a passion and she me, she would have probably attacked my DC when my back was turned. She was a dog for a firm adult, I never let her free around anything smaller than her. I trained her but ultimately she was bred to hunt, chase and attack things. I did always sleep well, confident that any burglar would come off badly!

With DC, I bought a small breed from a breeder, lovely gentle parents and raised on a small holding with a pack of about 15 dogs of 2 breeds that were bred to show/ be pets. She is relatively quiet but enjoys playing with children outside or snuggling next to them while they watch TV or play Nintendo.

I looked at rescues but none of the dogs I met were compatible with DC and DC's friends visiting. Our dog was chosen specifically because she was gentle and loving in nature and the training we have done has just enhanced that.

On the down side, that Bichon hair is a lot of work. I cringe when I see so many Bichons being flogged as teddy bears etc. If you dont get their cotters out (brushing every other day) they get skin illnesses and they don't generally love being brushed. Also can be very barky/ defensive of the home and hard to toilet train. Some are destructive (mine not). They are not an easy beginner dog.

So people shouldn’t own dogs they like because they are ‘mongrels’ and they shouldn’t call them names they like because ... errrr ...

@toria658

I have always felt that breeding should be done by licence and make it illegal/ licensing that is very expensive to own intact dogs ( something would have to be sorted for female dogs because they really do need one season before they are spayed). But the idea people can breed their dog on a whim makes me very angry. Lifelong dog owner here.

I also support licensing ( we have fairly strict rules in NZ and proper dog wardens) I pay 80 pounds a year for two neutered, microchipped dogs who have not been in trouble. Failure to pay and I believe the council hound you. They impound dogs here without much warning.

There are too many poorly bred dogs in the world. I can hear people screaming about ‘my right to have a dog’, a dog is not a right, a dog is a careful consideration and financial obligation, firmly legislated approved breeders and removal of puppies from non approved homes is the only way to prevent these ‘new breeds’ leading lives of medical misery.

Good breeders, who health check, know what they are doing deserve their income, backyard breeders with eyes on the cash prize at the expense of their pet and meddling with breeding selection etc need the full force of newly created legislation thrown at them.

Mongrels would still occur ( yes we do love them ) because accidents would still happen, but with the puppies removed, no small ad sales it would lead to there being less incentive, and perhaps fewer dog shelters filled to the brim with adolescent/ adult dogs who have in the main had a bad start in life. Legislation, licensing, compulsory breeder registration and no private sales is the only way to tackle this growing problem.

Why would you promote the continued breeding of purebred dogs over mongrels, when the former are full of genetic defects?

What's more, defects that have been created by the breeding practices of the people you are calling responsible breeders, and the regulations of the kennel clubs? Not to mention the continued denigration of healthy mongrels by the KC, entirely to their own advantage?

This is where I find these discussions so crazy. Yes, it is a good idea for people to know what to expect with a puppy. But how is it that people keep thinking following the lead of an organisation that is responsible for the sorry state of many dog breeds today is the way forward. It's just keeping on with the same crazy.

There should have been a dog registration scheme years ago.

YANBU to be concerned that for those who do not wfh at all once the pandemic is over, there will be large numbers of unwanted dogs.

@SmokedDuck

At no point have I mentioned KC. The scheme would be Council run, paid for by compulsory licensing and follow up for those who have not paid. The fact is dog breeding is a mess and I quite agree about the pure breed problem but what I was proposing was close monitoring and licensing of the breeders with compulsory health checks, leading to fewer dogs in medical misery. I quite agree the KC have caused many problems and are an organisation that also needs to ask itself some difficult questions.

A well bred dog from an experienced/ licensed/ qualified breeder who cares about the welfare or their dog/ puppies and complies with genetic, health and welfare testing is still a well bred dog regardless of what KC thinks, says or does.

[quote toria658]@SmokedDuck

At no point have I mentioned KC. The scheme would be Council run, paid for by compulsory licensing and follow up for those who have not paid. The fact is dog breeding is a mess and I quite agree about the pure breed problem but what I was proposing was close monitoring and licensing of the breeders with compulsory health checks, leading to fewer dogs in medical misery. I quite agree the KC have caused many problems and are an organisation that also needs to ask itself some difficult questions.

A well bred dog from an experienced/ licensed/ qualified breeder who cares about the welfare or their dog/ puppies and complies with genetic, health and welfare testing is still a well bred dog regardless of what KC thinks, says or does.[/quote]
Your post seemed to suggest you were picturing a situation with mainly purebreds and maybe crossbreeds, with mongrels only as "accidents".

I guess my view is that what you are picturing is really just tinkering with a system that is not a good one, taking too much for granted.

For example, thinking about the emphasis on genetic testing and on spaying or neutering all but a few dogs. Genetic testing is necessary because of the increase in serious genetic issues caused by purebred dog breeding. Many of the dog breeds, even when bred by good breeders who try and avoid inbreeding, are inbred enough that it affects their viability and overall health.

Genetic testing for these conditions is simply a paste-over solution to the real issue which is lack of genetic variation, which is pretty much inevitable when the basis of your system for dog breeding means no out-crosses with dogs who didn't happen to be registered in the breed book whenever it was first set up. The real goal should be to increase genetic variation so that there is no need for this kind of genetic testing - it's a sign of a sick dog population.

Similarly, the idea that only a few dogs belonging to a few professional breeders will be allowed to breed, and the vast majority of dogs will be non-contributors in the genetic population, is making the problem worse, not better. Every dog who is never bred might as will be dead in terms of the dog population, it's particular genetics are lost. When we think of a population of dogs we picture every pet dog, but in truth, they are mostly not relevant - the breeding population in many cases is tiny and the system is designed to keep it that way. It's another genetic bottleneck.

It would actually be better in terms of genetic variation if many more dogs had a litter, but only one. And particularly with the breeds that are mainly pets, it would be better if they were mixed breeds, especially in cases of dogs with low genetic variation. Dogs like pugs should probably never be purebred at all, they are so genetically degraded.

So while I appreciate the desire to get rid of puppy mills, the solutions people suggest often seem quite counterproductive. Most of them do come out of the KC way of thinking - that better and healthier dogs come from a small number of breeders working to specifications like testing and expensive breeding contracts. They've entered the public consciousness as the only responsible way to breed dogs but ultimately this approach has not been a success.

Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady first of all hi 👋
The gumtree advert you have posted belongs to me. First of all the advert has my contact details so how come you haven't contacted me to express your concerns? If anybody would like any information in regards to MY puppies "mongrels" then please dont hesitate to contact me, also do you people have nothing better to do with your time? How do you know the living conditions of my puppies and pet? If they are health checked? How do you know if you haven't asked me? Rather than gossiping, thank you Vicki 😊

@Betsy1989

Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady first of all hi 👋 The gumtree advert you have posted belongs to me. First of all the advert has my contact details so how come you haven't contacted me to express your concerns? If anybody would like any information in regards to MY puppies "mongrels" then please dont hesitate to contact me, also do you people have nothing better to do with your time? How do you know the living conditions of my puppies and pet? If they are health checked? How do you know if you haven't asked me? Rather than gossiping, thank you Vicki 😊

Are you talking for all the dogs for sale on gumtree?

Op took a screenshot of non pedigree dogs/mixed breed dogs for a massive price?

meh, they are animals, they breed. noone forcing them surely. I would hope any pet owner keeps track of their pet health, breeder or not. maybe all dog owners should by law be up to date with health needs vaccinations and so on. price is driven by demand, when people refuse to pay silly prices breeders wont charge them as much any more

No I'm talking about MY advert the picture being used in my advert, with my details on, I can't comment on how other people treat their dogs but mine are very very well loved from a very loving home and have been checked professionally and will be checked again before vaccination. But if somebody is going to post my advert I would expect them to contact me before gossiping on a forum? Everyone has thier own opinion granted and thats fine but my advert obviously offended the lady so she should have just contacted me?

I don't think anyone should be getting puppies at the moment. Get a rescue now, or wait six to twelve months and get a lockdown rehome then. Because you're exactly right, OP, the breeding of puppies is spiralling completely out of control at the moment. If there was no demand, then it wouldn't happen.

Exactly if I sold my puppies for cheaper people are buying them and then selling them on for more i don't want my puppies being sold on I want them going to one forever home, because its well known atm that puppies are being stolen and sold on again

@Betsy1989

No I'm talking about MY advert the picture being used in my advert, with my details on, I can't comment on how other people treat their dogs but mine are very very well loved from a very loving home and have been checked professionally and will be checked again before vaccination. But if somebody is going to post my advert I would expect them to contact me before gossiping on a forum? Everyone has thier own opinion granted and thats fine but my advert obviously offended the lady so she should have just contacted me?

OP is commenting on a large number of adverts for dogs with ridiculous prices, yours happens to fit the bill.

As you have chosen to comment, why is your Schinonpoo/Zuchipoo teddy bear puppy cost £2,500?

Because if you research thats how much all mixed breed dogs are at the money? So why would I sell them for less for someone to buy and then re sell my puppy?

Are at the moment

@bridgetreilly but rescues are not without issues. What would become of the puppies if no one was interested.

We lost our DDog in December 2019, initially I thought I'd never want a DDog again, the passing was to sad.

Over the next few months we all missed him so much, but we were not in the position to have a puppy.

Lockdown has led to me working from home forever, so we decided to get another DDog, yes she was expensive, yes she is worth it.

Reputable breeder, council registered and KC registered.

We are all loving it, I won't be told I shouldn't have because they're to expensive, we as a family felt the ti:e was right and it is.

And I'm sure you would never have purchased a puppy from somebody you don't trust. Buyers should be asking for evidence that mother and father are healthy and puppies have been health checked and vaccinated, I have no issues with any questions and if I did it would be because I had something to hide

@Betsy1989

Because if you research thats how much all mixed breed dogs are at the money? So why would I sell them for less for someone to buy and then re sell my puppy?

Did you breed to cash in on the trend, or do you breed normally?

Its my first time breeding and personally my last time. I don't agree with breeding a dog more than once anyway professional breeder or not.
Yes the prices of pups had gone up when we saw, But that is not the reason we did it, we had discussed it before knowing the price of dogs, but like I say you can't lower your prices atm as people are buying and selling them on, you will struggle to find any dogs under them prices. My point to this is my advert is being used to tarnish me with the same brush as irresponsible people over breeding dogs and not putting the health of thier dog or puppies first which is not the case for me so wanted to put that straight

‘No one forces dogs to breed’ apart from the artificial hormones injected to produce more seasons than would be normal.
Are people really this thick?

www.pdsa.org.uk/taking-care-of-your-pet/looking-after-your-pet/puppies-dogs/could-you-spot-a-puppy-farm