To ask people to please stop contributing to the overbreeding of dogs in lockdown?

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

I've posted this in "doghouse" too but maybe it will be of benefit to put it on here too.

I looked on gumtree. I shouldnt have but i did and now I'm pissed off!

I mean what the hell is this?! £2500 for a mix of random breeds, so blatantly an attempt to cash in on lockdown by breeding family dogs. No care will have been taken over health testing etc

Its not just this advert either.

FRUGS! I mean, never mind that it's a stupid f-ing name, but it's pug crossed with a French bulldog. Wonderful idea! Let's take 2 breeds who can't breath and make shit loads of money from them.

SHUGS! I'm guessing here as the advert wasn't specific but I'm assuming a shitzu crossed with a pug?

DACHOUND - If you're going to sell it you should be able to spell it!

More cockerpoos thank you can shake a stick at.

Puppies around 4 months old being sold for £2000 (obviously a lockdown purchase and they're trying to get their money back/make a bit more)

Even normal breeds which would have been fairly cheap pre lockdown (labrador, border collie etc) going for thousands of pounds.

What is wrong with people?! And when will this end?

Please please don't be someone who adds to this problem. Its not just gumtree, even some supposedly "reputable" breeders are now charging double or triple the price for puppies than they were before lockdown.

If people keep buying at this price it will encourage more and more irresponsible breeders who are just looking to make money.

Dog theft is a real problem (in my area) at the moment and it all stems from the same thing.

Once "work from home if you can" finishes so so many young dogs will be chucked into rescue centres or just onto the side of a road.

It's really annoying isn't it? But if people are stupid enough to be parted with their money so easily then more fool them.

A family member of mine was wanting to breed their dog, and had basically sold all the puppies before she was even bred. Thankfully she didn't get pregnant, because most of the people they were selling too have never owned pets and have no clue what they are doing.

@AlternativePerspective

So it’s still greed then and nothing to do with welfare.

If the decent breeders cared about the welfare of the puppies they would keep their prices lower in order to encourage people to buy from them rather than from the unscrupulous breeders.

I think you missed a bit. Many breeders initially kept their prices the same. And then found that their puppies were being sold on, at a profit. They had no knowledge of where, to whom etc. Breeders who care about their dogs don't like not knowing where their pups go, jhow safe they will be.

The ones round here stopped breeding, are waiting to see what happens once lockdowns are over.

If the decent breeders cared about the welfare of the puppies they would keep their prices lower in order to encourage people to buy from them rather than from the unscrupulous breeders
Since demand outgrow supply, it would make no difference and people would still go for more a more expensive puppy.

We got ours at the start of the first lockdown so prices still reasonable but we would have paid double for the amazing, totally adored and spoilt puppy we got.

The arrogance and judgemental attitude of some people here is pathetic. Stop pointing the finger to anyone who tick a box, just judge those individuals you witness mistreating their dog.

One neighbour made a judgemental comment to us getting our dog during lockdown.sge has three and is a sham which makes her think she's the perfect owner. Sadly, this doesn't extend to taking her dogs for walks much. She couldn't possibly take them out when it's 5 degrees outside! It's easy to judge others!

But if people are stupid enough to be parted with their money so easily then more fool them
Stupid enough? Or maybe now is a much better time for them and they don't mind paying so much for what becomes a new family member.

because most of the people they were selling too have never owned pets and have no clue what they are doing
Waited for that one too Couldn't possibly know how to being up a puppy if you've never had adopt before. Makes you wonder how some managed to have kids for the first time.

Some people really need to get off their high horse and stop being so condescending.

Absolutely agree op.
Stupid,idiotic breeders breeding their poor hitches every six months to earn thousands that they probably won't declare.
No home checks so selling to anyone with the money.
Dog rescues inundated with calls from first time owners or people returning to work or those who have realised a puppy is hard work.
It's pure greed without a thought for the welfare of the bitch or the puppies.😠

I've read through the responses and it seems that those who disagree are either

A) the ones who are breeding the dogs and selling on at high prices.

Or B) have bought a lockdown puppy. Crossbreed or mongrel.

Hmmm...interesting!

We adopted our cavachons 4 years ago as puppies from a rescue centre. They were from the worst type of puppy farm and both nearly died due to parvo virus. We brought them home at 16 weeks-their previous owner was well intentioned but naive and bought them from a freezing metal barn 2 days before Christmas- they couldn't cope with the huge vets bills and mess generated by 2 pups plus the emotional impact of having 2 pups nearly die . Owning a dog is lovely and rewarding but hard work and expensive. My dogs have cost us over 6k in vets bills despite having insurance-they stopped covering them for anything stomach, joint, major illness, skin etc related due to their previous medical history . So we now don't bother with having insurance as its just not worth it. It really annoys me that people know what to look for in a good breeder -I.e see them with their mother, in a home environment, medical checks etc but just ignore this advise and feed into the vicious cycle of puppy farming. Now greedy owners are trying to resell unwanted 5 month plus old puppies for over £2,000 and not giving to a rescue centre. What's that all about if not greed?

@echt

I posted on similar thread a few weeks ago to note that here in Australia, vets, via the RSPCA have noted a rise in leg and joint injuries by over-exercised Covid puppies.

Because of restrictions in exercise at the time, closure of leisure and entertainment, WFH and limits on household mixing, the dogs became a natural focus, a ready way of socialising. Dedicated off-leash areas also made a place to meet. And the puppies are paying for it, as will their owners with the bills for cruciate ligament damage, etc.

I imagine a similar situation will evolve in the UK, too.

I'm a dog owner myself and only too aware what a social bond dog-walking is, but my (pre-Covid) doggie was nurtured through his first year for just this reason.

This is part of the reason why I stopped breeding. I was well known for a particular breed, actually made great improvements to the breed through a physical characteristic of the line that improved health whilst staying within KC regulations. Certainly wasn't making the kind of money that people make now - barely made any money at all after the vets costs, food and advertising. Anyway, I used to print out a little booklet with information about daily care and advised 3 short walks daily - no more than ten minutes (toy breed) ended up with phone calls from a couple of new owners complaining of leg and ankle issues - when I asked how often they were walked, they'd been taken out on long forest and beach walks for hours daily as puppies - that's what's caused your pups luxating patella and I did warn you!

That and one of my girls was quite traumatised by delivery - not like her mother at all, who was a natural whelper - and i decided then I wouldn't put another bitch through pregnancy and birth.

I agree with a poster above who doesn't believe in every story of dog theft. When I got my first dog those stories were doing the rounds then too. Vans outside houses waiting for the owner to go to work so they could break in and steal the dog. It actually caused me a lot of fear and distress and for no reason.
It seems to be a fashion now to declare your dog stolen when what's happened is the dog has been left in the garden and probably decided to escape, as dogs who are abandoned to live in gardens often do.

@Athenaena

And who the hell are the 8% that have voted you unreasonable? The same muppets responsible for this crisis no doubt.

It's still at 8% now!

I’m so glad I’m not a breeder as I would be terrified selling puppies at a proper price and have them resold on for profit

Or someone would rob me for the pups

Prices are crazy now

I mean I paid £350 and £600 for my two.

Now, it’s at least 4 figures for my breed

I am sad that the prices have gone insane. At the beginning of lockdown 1 I was on a breeder's list, all going well with puppy pics etc, and suddenly I was eliminated from list. I discovered that breeder had dumped all existing hopefuls and had doubled her prices.

A few years ago I was walking my young dog and a man and girl of about 10 drew up in a van. The girl got out and asked if she could stroke my dog. I was a bit and then the man got out and asked if dog was "entire" . I literally ran with dog and felt we had a narrow escape.

I agree with a poster above who doesn't believe in every story of dog theft. I don't believe in all of them but I do know that dog thefts have risen. I know people whose dogs have been taken, including the woman whose 4 week old pups were taken, working dogs, bred and sold for local buyers. I tend to accept that the police posts about 15 dogs found in one house, all bitches, 3 breeds, all stolen.

And a woman who was hit from behind her dog snatched, both saved by a young man who was passing and lept in to help. That happened about 2 miles from where I was working at the time.

It is happening. But I get what you mean by the stubborn refusal of some to accept that their own stupidity lost them their dog!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I agree with a poster above who doesn't believe in every story of dog theft. I don't believe in all of them but I do know that dog thefts have risen. I know people whose dogs have been taken, including the woman whose 4 week old pups were taken, working dogs, bred and sold for local buyers. I tend to accept that the police posts about 15 dogs found in one house, all bitches, 3 breeds, all stolen.

And a woman who was hit from behind her dog snatched, both saved by a young man who was passing and lept in to help. That happened about 2 miles from where I was working at the time.

It is happening. But I get what you mean by the stubborn refusal of some to accept that their own stupidity lost them their dog!

Yes, I'm sure there are genuine cases of dog thefts, I would imagine the majority of them are people targeting the folk with gumtree ads showing 6 pups for sale at £2500 each and all you have to do is ask for their address to get a viewing. Those people should be afraid. I was very old fashioned and advertised in the paper before i had a waiting list.

A family member of mine was wanting to breed their dog, and had basically sold all the puppies before she was even bred. Thankfully she didn't get pregnant, because most of the people they were selling too have never owned pets and have no clue what they are doing.

I find this a strange attitude, if you've never had a dog can you never ever get a dog?

Surely everyone was once a first time owner?

I would imagine the majority of them are people targeting the folk with gumtree ads showing 6 pups for sale at £2500 each and all you have to do is ask for their address to get a viewing. Possibly! But none of the ones I know about had any adverts at all. They usually have litters when they know they have customers - they are working dogs, I suspect it works a bit differently! The woman with the 4 week pups stolen hadn't even told anyone her bitch had whelped. She is distraught as she believes someone she knows well must have had a part in the theft.

Aren’t the much lauded lurchers ‘crossbreeds’?

Do we make sneery comments about them, or just ‘poos’?

@CallistoSol

I have no time for dog breeders, 'reputable' or not. The KC registered breeders are solely responsible for king Charles with skills too small for their brains so their eyes bulge out of their heads, hip displaysia in lots of bigger breeds, that horrible sloping back in German shepherds which causes health problems, breathing problems in the short snouted breeds. The KC is a fucking disgrace and I would no more get a dog from a registered breeder than I would from a puppy farm.

I breed working line GSDs and in no way at all subscribe to the mess that is what the GSDs look like in the KC shows!

The problem with "purebreds" is that you are breeding from a smaller genepool and if you have unscrupulous or inexperienced breeders not doing the necessary health checks (and by this I don't just mean the minimum) the problem is perpetuated.

I've chosen not to breed this year for lots of different reasons but I would say although I don't usually sell my pups for £2000 / £2500 actually that probably isn't far off for what I should in order to cover costs.....

@toria658
Summed it up really, totally agree.

@Porcupineintherough

A mix of different breeds isnt "overbreeding" it's the exact opposite. Increasing hybrid vigour by breeding yourself a mongrel.

Thats not how hybrid vigour works, it only benefits the first generation (the cross between two lines which have been separate for many generations). Subsequent crosses don't have any benefit. In fact, it can bring out unwanted recessive genes.

The breeders I know don't advertise their prices. I really couldn't tell you what their puppies go for. Probably a lot, but I have no idea of the figure.

Never ever buy a dog off gumtree or pets4homes or the like. It is rife with puppy farmers and backyard breeders. If a breeder doesn't have a waiting list I would avoid like the plague.

Good, reputable breeders have fewer litters and waiting lists. They don't need to advertise. They can vet all applications and choose who their animals go to - they don't just give them to whoever stumps up the cash first.

@AlternativePerspective

So you haven’t increased your prices during lockdown then?

In fact most reputable breeders haven’t even bred during lockdown....

I wasn't sure if this was directed at me?

We had a litter right at the start of the last lockdown, but my girl was already pregnant so there wasn't much I could do! The puppies were sold before they were born (a long waiting list) so prices weren't affected. We haven't had puppies since though that isn't due to lockdown (one girl too young and the other had the last litter so needed a break in between).

Well, we're getting a puppy. We paid a deposit and are waiting for it to be a bit older before we can pick it up. I've grown up with a dog and always wanted to get one as an adult, but this is the first time I can because I'm now working from home (I have changed firms recently and will be working from home permanently). It's from a breeder who has been doing this for many years, does genetic testing, doesn't advertise and has been recommended to us by my daughter's teacher who has bought dogs from her. Her prices were also very reasonable considering how high they are on pets4home (about half the price). I don't think we're some evil greedy monsters gor wanting to get a dog during lockdown

It's also a purebred, not a "mongrel"

I live a few miles from one of the largest legally licenced puppy farms in Europe. More dogs than you could ever imagine all being bred for the UK market.
It may be controversial but I think puppy owners need to be shamed into not buying these puppies, I look forward to the day when owning a crossbreed who hasn't been rescued is a mark of shame.

@Blockedoff

A family member of mine was wanting to breed their dog, and had basically sold all the puppies before she was even bred. Thankfully she didn't get pregnant, because most of the people they were selling too have never owned pets and have no clue what they are doing.

I find this a strange attitude, if you've never had a dog can you never ever get a dog?

Surely everyone was once a first time owner?

Yes but these ones don't think to research or learn. One of them got a dog and just locks it in a crate most of the time, doesn't walk it lots either. It's a labrador, it's got a lot of energy and it's got little manners.