To ask how you handle backchat in 6yo's? Parenting help please

[GlitteryFluff]

Ds is 6.

His attitude/ back chat is awful. I get so frustrated and cross. Every time I ask him something it's eye roll, huffs, has an answer for everything. You tell him not to do something, he does it again straight away. You say you've done it again, and he's adamant he didn't or it was an accident. You say it wasn't, he says it was, it goes on. Obviously I stop in the end, otherwise we're just arguing. You ask him to do something, he ignores you. You ask again, he ignores you. You start to raise your voice and you get a growl of 'for gods sake I'm doing it!! Yet wasn't doing it and still isn't doing it. He won't accept he's wrong ever, and won't just apologise and make it right. He makes it worse by upping the stroppy, rude, attitude which then makes me even more cross. I shout. I storm out the room. My behaviour becomes unacceptable. I feel like I've failed and I don't know how to fix things.

How the hell do you deal with disrespect, rudeness etc. I was expecting it in teenage years but not yet. Not at 6. I wouldn't have dreamt of speaking to my parents like he does.
But then I know I don't help things because I get annoyed and frustrated. How do you keep calm? How do you diffuse thing? How do you get them to show respect and not be rude or argue back? I just feel like it's spiralling out of control.

Obviously I need to work on how I deal with things and am also going to limit tablet time to 30 mins in the evening if his behaviour has been good in the day but any help or advice would be much appreciated in how I can handle things better and also any tactics to get him to behave better.

Thank you

God I feel so overwhelmed.
I don't have a clue where to start at trying to sort this out.
I should say he hasn't always been like this. Just over the last 6 months or so it's started and slowly getting progressively worse. Im trying to go easy on him because life is fucking weird right now but it's just got to a point where it's getting too much now. I know he's not happy about going back to school so having that confirmed today has probably got to him. I don't think he's an undisciplined monster, but I feel like I'm either too soft or I lose it and shout.

I'm going to look up some of the things mentioned. The 1-2-3 magic - is that basically 2 warnings then time out/consequence without getting into a negotiation or discussion? I think this is my best bet at the minute. Is he too old for time out? Get your pjs on now please. But I want to finish this first. That's one. Pjs on now please. I'm doing something! That's two. Pjs on now. But I just want to do this. That's three. Sit at the front door/step/whatever for 6 minutes. Then release him from timeout and tell him to get pjs on now and repeat if necessary? Thank him when he does do it? I don't feel like I can take away his 30 minutes after 3 because that'll be gone within an hour of waking and then where's his incentive for the rest of the day? Do I remove that 30 mins after so many time outs in a day or if he's refused the time out? I honestly don't know what I'm doing. Does that sound like it would work? Concentrating on backchat/arguing and ignoring less important things/picking battles?

I do praise him a lot, whenever I see or hear kindness or he listens the first time etc. I think that's important. He isn't getting much one on one time or quality time at the minute though, the most he's getting me is for school work and that isn't lovely time it's stressful. So need to work on that. Have a 3 year old and a 3 month old so it's difficult. However that isn't his fault.

The idea being that after a while he'll twig it's quicker and easier to just do the thing the first time I ask and not get to 3 and go to time out and then have to do it anyway?

He's a child- 6 ! Golden rule. Do not get into a shouting match. Try and lower the stress/ emotional content not raise it.

' Common kiddo, we don't have that here. Remember fair dos - I don't shout at you , you don't shout at me... Remember what I said yesterday if you are horrid I'll have to lick you all over to make you feel better or some other ludicrous threat. ( To make him laugh.) Let's go and see the park, play football, get the paints out ... what ever, a distraction job. I'm off out in the garden to play with the dog , coming? And leave - he'll likely follow.

You've 'won' you've not risen to the bait.

If you've got an emotional little child ( better description than a 'difficult' one), make it a rule not to rise to the bait. Smile inwardly when he shouts and be calm and ultra reasonable. He's stressed for some reason , help him get over it ( you're not facing a case of Original Sin just a 'naughty' boy.)

Time outs never worked for DD.

Won't get into PJs is a tough one because I won't lose story or song at bedtime. What's his bedtime routine? Does he like it? DD does reading (hers and ours), song, hugs and mindfulness. The last is a recent addition she's enjoying. If you can add something at bedtime he'll enjoy, he can lose it if he chooses to.

What do you do for mindfulness?

Meditation app.

I have 3 relatively obedient children and 1 wilful arse of a 6 year old. It's not all parenting.

Screen time at the minute is a lot. Not just for watching You Tube and playing games but he likes looking stuff up on google and reading stuff about Pokemon etc.

Sorry, but I think he is way too young to have any unsupervised access to Youtube and Google, even if you have parental controls set on the device. I'm not actually a fan of Pokemon either. One of my dc's friends was utterly obsessed, and was the most contrary and argumentative child I have ever come across. He was under the impression that he was in charge, and his mum should do as she was told.

@solicitoring

I have 3 relatively obedient children and 1 wilful arse of a 6 year old. It's not all parenting.

There's being wilful and being rude.

What consequences/punishment does he get for poor attitude? The odd ignoring I think is to be expected but back chatting constantly and being rude isn't on and needs to be followed up with. Better to put boundaries in place now that expect them when he's older.

According to Human Rights Watch "90% of the world's children live in countries where corporal punishment and other physical violence against children is still legal."

If the OP is in one of the 10% countries then obviously smacking the child is not allowed. But there are creative ways, like the PP who said to shut them in the utility room. My parents used to lock me in a cupboard when they thought I was behaving badly (a fairly big cupboard with a window in it, I don't mean the cupboard under the sink). Ironically I got used to it and didn't mind being in there, I actually dislike open spaces these days.

I think the key is to make the punishment hurt the child - not physically if smacking is banned, but emotionally. Take away their toys for a certain period of time, take away their access to tablets and TV. Once taken away don't give them back until they "sentence" has been served. They will wail, they will beg, they will scream, they will cry, they will plead - they will make you feel like you are being abusive. But parenting isn't a two-way discussion - the parent has all the power, the child has none. If they feel you have taken it too far they can get their revenge when you are elderly and need their care. But while your position of power lasts, make good use of it.

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

According to Human Rights Watch "90% of the world's children live in countries where corporal punishment and other physical violence against children is still legal."

If the OP is in one of the 10% countries then obviously smacking the child is not allowed. But there are creative ways, like the PP who said to shut them in the utility room. My parents used to lock me in a cupboard when they thought I was behaving badly (a fairly big cupboard with a window in it, I don't mean the cupboard under the sink). Ironically I got used to it and didn't mind being in there, I actually dislike open spaces these days.

I think the key is to make the punishment hurt the child - not physically if smacking is banned, but emotionally. Take away their toys for a certain period of time, take away their access to tablets and TV. Once taken away don't give them back until they "sentence" has been served. They will wail, they will beg, they will scream, they will cry, they will plead - they will make you feel like you are being abusive. But parenting isn't a two-way discussion - the parent has all the power, the child has none. If they feel you have taken it too far they can get their revenge when you are elderly and need their care. But while your position of power lasts, make good use of it.

I think treating your children as people you have power over rather than people you have a relationship with is really sad.

OP I would recommend “the book you with your parents had read” by philipa perry

All the above advice is good for certain children but with some you have to weigh up the benefits of breaking their spirit or letting some things ride - pick your battles carefully. By removing screen privileges early in the day there is no incentive for the behaviour to improve as screen time has already been lost. After involving my grandson in the discussion, we agreed that ipad/ps4 time would be earnt through good behaviour rather than lost through bad. For example, he would be rewarded with an hour at lunchtime if the morning had gone well and the same in the afternoon. He was quite clear what constituted bad behaviour (his mum picked a couple of real no-nos) and he quickly got the hang of actions and consequences! As his behaviour improved, the triggers would evolve but it was always made very clear to him what they were. He is a strong-willed child and we're trying to channel his 'determination' into perseverance and ambition rather than break him - skills he's going to need in the future!

Please don’t lock your child in a room or cupboard. No one deserves to be treated like that, let alone kids already deprived of normal childhood.

OP we have a headstrong 6 year old. Very similar back chat. We’ve felt with it by strict rules on consequences and a whole heap of praise for good behaviour.

You have to remember at this age they crave attention, and any attention is good - even if it’s negative attention. I think this is exacerbated now when their normal social contacts and play fellows have been cut off completely. They want interaction, and you need to turn this around into positive interactions. Damn hard when you’re locked down and frustrated Yourself and trying to work etc. It’s a hard time and you need to give them a little more understanding.

One thing we’ve done is a rewards chart. Star every time they do something first time, or without being asked, or are kind to sibling etc. When they get 10 stars they get a prize from the prize box. Fill the chart and they get a bigger price.

Switching to focusing on praising the positive has made the biggest impact. We still have strict consequences- 1,2,3 works well for us, then it’s time out, if they refuse to go in time out they loose a star (which to them is devastating). You have to know your kids language- what actually “gets” them in terms of consequences and rewards, but it is a much more constructive way of dealing with behaviour.

Here is website for 123magic - there are also videos on YouTube to talk you through the techniques

www.123magic.com/

Also some elements of family nurture might help here - clear family rules and consequences, which the kids help draw up. Ignore the little stuff and don’t get drawn into an argument.

Also switch the screen time around - instead of removing it, build it up as an incentive focusing on the positive behaviour rather than the negative - so mum asked you to tidy your shoes and you did so you earned 2 mins etc etc. Small rewards but often - focus on the behaviour you do want and praise it rather than focusing on the negative (easier said than done, I know). If a visual chart will help with that then make one together.

Having the same issue here, we don't do screen time anyway but we are having lots of back chat. Today we had a refusal to go out with the family and instead wanted to read under a duvet. As a result I've just explained that she doesn't get to halt the whole family for what she wants and I've ignored her and that seems to have worked. It's hard because I don't want to remove books but that's what she's into right now. I also don't like that idea of sending away to a room as her room is supposed to be her own nice space, not a punishment zone. So tricky!

I don't have kids this age but I do voluntary work with kids of all ages. Aside from things others have said (immediate consequences etc) I have found one thing to be very useful - when things are calm, maybe when you're discussing the behaviour afterwards, explain to them things they won't get in trouble for. I don't mean absolutely everything, but for example: "you'll never get into trouble for being angry, but you will get in trouble for hitting because you're angry. You'll never get into trouble for trying something and doing it wrong, but you will get into trouble for breaking it because it won't work/fit" etc. Obviously context matters but if you reinforce it, you end up with kids who can come to you and say "I'm angry" or "I feel X Y Z" etc, which can diffuse some situations before they start.

Sorry, OP. I didn't meant to come across so harshly. It's clearly a difficult situation, and I hope you can manage to find a solution to it

Just wanted to come on to say thank you.
I spent that evening researching 123 magic, watched all the YouTube videos about it and how it works. The next day I had a chat with him about it and we started it and it worked instantly. It's still early days but I haven't got to 3 yet (which would be 6 minutes in a thinking spot) and he's earning screen time for good behaviour and he feels like he's in control of that so is loving it. I'm also making sure we spend a little bit of quality time each day doing something he wants me to do with him, so he taught me draw some Pokemon one day and another we played hungry hippos together. So I think this is working. I haven't raised my voice, I haven't got angry or cross, and if his behaviour starts to veer in the wrong direction it's quickly brought back to what's expected. I've started it with my 3 year old too. So thank you for your help. I feel happy and hopeful.

I'm interested in the ones who send their children to their room
I find this difficult too, my 6 yo will only go to his room if I march him there. Initially, he did not stay there unless I actually sat there with him. He has got the message now, but it took time and patience.
Ignoring doesn't work at all with my DC, they will start breaking and throwing stuff if I ignore them, which is why I only ever send them to their room.

Glad to hear that!

The quality time is so important. That's the reward for both of you.

My 6yo was like this for a bit. I tried the naughty step. Doesnt work. It's just a phase. I found love bombing and banning tablets works. He has to earn tablet time with good behavior. He seems to need a lot of positive attention. Its easy to get stuck in a spiral of shouting at each other. Have a little break and reset and try lots of praise for the tiniest thing. I also said o him "where has my lovely helpful ds gone? ".
Suddenly he's trying to help cook and tidy up. Part of it is wanting tablet time, but he seems to genuinely want to help. He loves the positive attention. They love having a task to do with you.
I also have a 4yo going through the ignoring me independent phase.
But save the punishments such as naughty step/room for really big things like swearing or violence.
Hope this helps. It's just a phase.

Warning, then timeout works well with my 6 year old so "pick up your toys" "I will do" then you go back and 5 minutes and she's not doing it "I told you to pick up your toys if you don't do it then you will go into timeout until you can tidy your toys away" she usually backchats and refuses so ends up in timeout, 3 time outs in a day she loses a marble from her marble jar which she can exchange for tablet time (1 marble equals 10 minutes).

Any violence towards me, the cat or furniture is an instant timeout no warning.

@Newnameagain111

Suggest you look close to home here. At 6 henis learning this attitude from others. How do you and your DH/other children interact? Is your tone / the tone of others in the household bossy or combative “becuase I say so / do as you’re told” ? Is there an underlying assumption that things have to happen the way you / DH wants them to? Little ones can pick up on and internalise this as their own outlook. You really have to model for them the sort of behaviour you want to see.

If you and your DH start saying “yes of course I’ll do that right away” to each other, you may find your child follows suit.

I agree with the above.

I would not expect this language or tone from a 6 year old, he will have picked it up from somewhere: "You start to raise your voice and you get a growl of 'for gods sake I'm doing it'!!"

I haven’t got lots of advice OP, just some regarding the backchat. My 6 year old is generally a really lovely and laid back child but he has a problem with backchat. I did a course on positive parenting and I felt it explained well why kids do this. It’s because they feel overly bossed about or ordered around. If you have quite an authoritarian style of parenting it can lead to backchat from the child as thats the way they handle being overly patented. I don’t know if this rings true for you or not.

A lot of child behaviour stems from the way they are parented so just something to think about. I’ve found that the attitude is better when I’m not pulling him up on everything.