To think it should be free and part of the childhood vaccines?

[CottonCandy01]

Hello,

My friend's son is getting his chickenpox vaccine next week, I believe it is costing around 140-150 pounds for the two doses. It got me thinking about my own young child (currently 6 months) and if this is a path I should take - on balance, i think I will get it for her.

The problem I have with this, is after researching why we don't have it as part of the childhood vaccines here this is what it returned:

*So why doesn’t the UK use the chickenpox vaccine for children if it is safe and effective at preventing severe disease? All vaccines in the UK are assessed for their cost-effectiveness to ensure that the health budget spent on services which provide the greatest health benefit for the population as a whole.

In the last review of the chickenpox vaccine by the committee which advises the government on vaccines (the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, JCVI), the future modelling of the impact of vaccination indicated that there could be an increase in the rate of shingles in adults over time, which would make the vaccine programme not cost-effective.

This is because, if chickenpox in children disappears as a result of a vaccine programme, adults would no longer have their immunity boosted by exposure to their chickenpox-suffering children and grandchildren and would be more likely to get shingles. Put simply, the conclusion of the previous review was that it would not be cost-effective for the NHS to immunise children against chickenpox*

So if I'm reading that correctly, it is basically because we can't afford it? I'm not naive or an idiot, I know the NHS is hideously underfunded but I just think it is so wrong. I'm in a privileged position that I can afford to vaccinate my child, as can my friend, but for those who can't I think it is really crappy. Chickenpox is not always a mild disease, it doesn't look like something that should even be in circulation in 2021, I remember my younger siblings, crying in pain all night and hitting temps over 40, one of them had to go to hospital.

Not sure what my AIBU is here but I just can't believe it isn't part of the vaccination schedule over here when it is in so many other countries. Seems so wrong.

The one used in the UK (Zostavax) doesn't seem to be nearly as effective as that one. Wonder if its cheaper!

Children can DIE from CP. why take the risk if you don’t have to?

But it's fine to take the risk of adults dying from Shingles?

The two are inextricably linked, whichever way you roll the dice someone loses.

Yes and it bloody shouldn't be children! Wow!

and you can only get shingles if you have had chicken pox. So again, no chickenpox = no shingles.

It’s a policy decision. Policy decisions are hard and cannot favour everyone. There is no magic money tree.

My DD was vaccinated on the NHS it’s not financials beneficial fo vaccinate all children when the majority will be fine. My 2 others are not vaccinated.

If children have the chicken pox vaccine now they risk getting shingles (which is worse and can be more dangerous) when they are a teen or adult - what part of this aren't people understanding?

Not understanding it because it’s not correct:
www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/shingles/news/20190610/chickenpox-vaccine-shields-against-shingles-too

The chicken pox vaccination is recommended by the WHO which is why Australia and the US give it as part of the childhood programme - so I don't think you are being unreasonable. If you are by any chance going to Australia at any time in their life you can do it then for free. Just call a vaccination centre you don't need to be Australian. The UK and Australia have recipricol medical agreement.

@minipie hard to explain to someone who has just admitted that they would save adults over children when push came to shove.

It’s like I was astonished when they withdrew the TB vaccine despite cases rising and being a particular risk if you travel a lot to developing countries. It was entirely about cost effectiveness from what I can gather. The chicken pox case is more nuanced due to the link with shingles.

On average around 5 children a year die from CP in the UK compared with around 20 adults.

Now imagine how many more adult deaths there would be if more adults than there are now were not protected against shingles. Because that's what potentially could happen if CP was routinely rolled out to all children. Not to mention the additional burden on the NHS of more adults severely ill with shingles as well, or those left with lasting side effects.

This is what you are suggesting OP.

To potentially save 5 children.

I'm not saying either of these is more morally right or wrong, but you asked why the NHS has made this decision and posters are explaining it to you.

@dementedpixie

The one used in the UK (Zostavax) doesn't seem to be nearly as effective as that one. Wonder if its cheaper!

When there are competing vaccines they are generally priced according to effectiveness, so this is a reasonable assumption.

[quote CottonCandy01]@minipie hard to explain to someone who has just admitted that they would save adults over children when push came to shove.[/quote]
Really? Because I can't see anywhere where anyone has said that.

My kids lived in the USA at vaccination age and I turned down the varicella vaccine as I did the research and it doesn't confer lifelong immunity, they need boosters otherwise they can catch chickenpox as adults when it is a far more serious disease. They caught it as soon as they entered school in the U.K.

I wish I could go back in time and get mine vaccinated. Both my twins had it very severely, one first then the other two weeks later. Both had infections, one very serious, and both have scars.

What made me really angry was when I found out that antivirals can be prescribed for those with chicken pox, or those recently exposed. When we took twin 1 to the GP because he had an infection, they could have prevented twin 2 getting it but they didn’t, and he was the one who got very sick.

I do understand that shingles isn’t pleasant, but there’s a shingles vaccine. I also know that not everyone has chicken pox badly but it can be bloody horrendous - I had no idea how bad it could be.

You can't have the shingles vaccine until you are 50. (In the uk anyway)

There is no magic money tree.

I think this year has proven the government can find money for whatever they want, especially if it’s going to someone they know.

@Madvixen In the US if a child doesn't have private insurance, then Medicaid or SCHIP pay for the chickenpox as well as other vaccines. Medicaid and SCHIP are both government funded. There are also programs to pay for adult vaccines. No one goes unvaccinated due to costs.

@FrangipaniBlue I asked, yes, but you are giving out some very factually incorrect information.

You also said:
But it's fine to take the risk of adults dying from Shingles?

The two are inextricably linked, whichever way you roll the dice someone loses.

That comes across to me, that you would personally rather take the odds with children then with adults.

I am boring myself repeating this but if you haven't had chickenpox you cannot get shingles. Hence, if children were vaccinated they wouldn't be able to get shingles later down the line.

Sorry I'm very confused by the people saying you get protection from shingles by having chicken pox.

@SinkGirl I'm sorry to hear that. It's sad to think that the reason that is acceptable is because of the small risk that it may give adults an immunity boost.

I really really hope in the future it is on the childhood vaccination programme. Goes to show it can in some cases be so much more than just a few itchy spots.

Haven't read the whole thread, but chicken pox is usually a milk illness for children.

If a child is at risk from complication or lives with someone who is they are offered the vaccine on the NHS.

My husband had to take some serious steroid treatment a few years ago. If our son had been old enough at the time they would have given him the chicken pox vaccine in order to protect DH.

We've ended up paying for both of ours to be done anyway.

direct copy and paste from the NHS website, so no, I'm afraid I'm not giving out wrong information! (Or at least if I am, then so is our NHS)

"Why is the chickenpox vaccination not part of the routine childhood immunisation schedule?

There's a worry that introducing chickenpox vaccination for all children could increase the risk of chickenpox and shingless_ in adults.

While chickenpox during childhood is unpleasant, the vast majority of children recover quickly and easily.
In adults, chickenpox is more severe and the risk of complications increases with age.

If a childhood chickenpox vaccination programme was introduced, people would not catch chickenpox as children because the infection would no longer circulate in areas where the majority of children had been vaccinated.

This would leave unvaccinated children susceptible to contracting chickenpox as adults, when they're more likely to develop a more severe infection or a secondary complication, or in pregnancy, when there's a risk of the infection harming the baby.

We could also see a significant increase in cases of shingles in adults.

When people get chickenpox, the virus remains in the body. This can then reactivate at a later date and cause shingles.

Being exposed to chickenpox as an adult (for example, through contact with infected children) boosts your immunity to shingles.

If you vaccinate children against chickenpox, you lose this natural boosting, so immunity in adults will drop and more shingles cases will occur."

@Twinkie01 It is the reason given on the NHS website if you search for why we don't currently vaccinate children. It basically says it protects adults from shingles because if they are exposed to children with chickenpox it essentially gives them a boost.

I am not from a medical or scientific background so cannot give any further insight as to how or why, but I do know that there is increasing research coming out of countries who do vaccinate that it may have been overestimated and the argument may not stand up.

I vaccinated my 2nd child after a horrific experience with my first. Those saying don't vaccinate obviously didn't have that experience. Just awful.