To think it should be free and part of the childhood vaccines?

[CottonCandy01]

Hello,

My friend's son is getting his chickenpox vaccine next week, I believe it is costing around 140-150 pounds for the two doses. It got me thinking about my own young child (currently 6 months) and if this is a path I should take - on balance, i think I will get it for her.

The problem I have with this, is after researching why we don't have it as part of the childhood vaccines here this is what it returned:

*So why doesn’t the UK use the chickenpox vaccine for children if it is safe and effective at preventing severe disease? All vaccines in the UK are assessed for their cost-effectiveness to ensure that the health budget spent on services which provide the greatest health benefit for the population as a whole.

In the last review of the chickenpox vaccine by the committee which advises the government on vaccines (the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, JCVI), the future modelling of the impact of vaccination indicated that there could be an increase in the rate of shingles in adults over time, which would make the vaccine programme not cost-effective.

This is because, if chickenpox in children disappears as a result of a vaccine programme, adults would no longer have their immunity boosted by exposure to their chickenpox-suffering children and grandchildren and would be more likely to get shingles. Put simply, the conclusion of the previous review was that it would not be cost-effective for the NHS to immunise children against chickenpox*

So if I'm reading that correctly, it is basically because we can't afford it? I'm not naive or an idiot, I know the NHS is hideously underfunded but I just think it is so wrong. I'm in a privileged position that I can afford to vaccinate my child, as can my friend, but for those who can't I think it is really crappy. Chickenpox is not always a mild disease, it doesn't look like something that should even be in circulation in 2021, I remember my younger siblings, crying in pain all night and hitting temps over 40, one of them had to go to hospital.

Not sure what my AIBU is here but I just can't believe it isn't part of the vaccination schedule over here when it is in so many other countries. Seems so wrong.

It should be free and part of the standard vaccines yes. I believe it will be in years to come as it already is in many countries. My GP told me when asked that it isn't currently (this was pre-Covid) because 1) cost and 2) because people were already reducing in numbers for vaccines like the MMR, and they couldn't add another to the mix.

I paid for both of mine to be vaccinated. First one was £110 per dose so £220 at a private hospital (five years ago). Second time it was more easily accessible and I got it done at Boots pharmacy at £70 per dose so more affordable (early 2020)

Chicken pox is not always mild. It is at best unpleasant and inconvenient and at worse, in rare cases, causes serious illness or complications that lead to death. I'd rather not take the risk if I can avoid it.

@CayrolBaaaskin

It’s also completely untrue that the current vaccine for chicken pox (given in two doses) wears off.

More anti vaccer rubbish.

Correct. It doesn't 'wear off' any more than the MMR vaccine wears off (which it can, and does - it can have to be redone). It's rubbish.

@dementedpixie The shingles argument is being revisited anyway. They think the immunity booster argument has been overestimated.

I wasn't saying anything about the immunity boost. I'm just saying that you can't get shingles unless you've already had chicken pox. It's not a stand alone disease.

You need to be age 70+ to get the shingles vaccine

You can have it at age 50+ if you pay for it yourself (according to the NHS website).

I don't agree with chicken pox vaccine. And it definitely shouldn't be free. If you want to pay, go ahead. Both of mine had it, naturally, as did everyone I know. It's fine.

MMR I totally support.

even more reason for the chickenpox vaccine to be widely available.

@Oblomov21 It will be before long I think. Not everyone has it mildly, I think it is very broad to say 'it's fine'.

Don't a lot of countries use MMRV with the varicella vaccine included? Maybe it is hard enough getting people to get the MMR without adding V into the mix too

@dementedpixie

Don't a lot of countries use MMRV with the varicella vaccine included? Maybe it is hard enough getting people to get the MMR without adding V into the mix too

Yes they do and this is basically what my GP told me. There's enough anti vax idiocy going on with the MMR as it is without adding something else.

I agree OP, it should be part of the vaccination schedule. Two of my dc's had CP naturally, it was 'mild' in that they didn't become seriously ill but it did mean a week off nursery for each of them and a pretty miserable experience for them (and me!). With my third dc, when she hadn't had it by the age of 5 I paid to have her vaccinated. I had CP quite badly at age 8 myself and was ill and bedridden for a fortnight or so. I don't see the point of putting a child through that for 'natural' immunity. To me it's like putting up with a headache rather than taking a pain reliever because it's more 'natural'. Bollocks to that.

I think it's unfair that it is only available to people who are able to pay. Perhaps a first step would be having it free on request from the NHS?

@TimeIhadaNameChange

My DP has battled through every illness and medical problem he's had (inc back pain so severe he could not walk upright, yet still went to work). Shingles floored him. I have never seen him so ill.

If chickwnpox in children means a greater resilience to shingles I'm all for it.

Agree.

I know a few people who have struggled with singles; it's an absolute misery. And serious problems are more frequent than serious problems arising from chickenpox.

The US may vaccinate for chickenpox, but they're also pushing a shingles vaccine, which I believe is only 50% effective. They are a 'for profit' model of healthcare, not to mention everyone for themselves, so not a good point of comparison.

Apart from they are looking into the shingles argument when they revisit whether it should be part of the childhood vaccines

I'm a Yank and an RN. I was gobsmacked when I learned here that the NHS doesn't routinely vaccinate for it. There's a vaccine here called ProQuad which adds it to the MMR jab. That lowers the cost considerably.

The WHO recommends it as well.

The US may vaccinate for chickenpox, but they're also pushing a shingles vaccine, which I believe is only 50% effective. They are a 'for profit' model of healthcare, not to mention everyone for themselves, so not a good point of comparison.

According to the CDC, Shingrix (the shingles vaccine) is over 90% effective.

www.cdc.gov/shingles/multimedia/shringrix-50-older.html

@FTMF30

I personally don't think it's necessary to vaccinate against chickenpox. It is not life threatening and is good for the immune system to be able to battle some things naturally.

It IS life threatening. My sister nearly died. Was in hospital and then in a wheelchair.

I had my child vaccinated against CP because it can be (deadly) serious.

@CottonCandy01

There is a shingles vaccine though...so again, it is all about costs presumably. Like I said, seems wrong. Shouldn't have to roll the dice with our health when there is working vaccines out there. Like I said I'm lucky, I can afford vaccines but plenty can't.

The shingles vaccine is only available to over 70s. Protection is limited, around 50%, and it only lasts for five years (and doesn't respond to booster doses).

So really there's very little protection against shingles.

but surely the point of exposing children in childhood is to give them immunity so they have long term much reduced risk of shingles or adult-chicken-pox related suffering

This.

If children have the chicken pox vaccine now they risk getting shingles (which is worse and can be more dangerous) when they are a teen or adult - what part of this aren't people understanding?

If the NHS rolls out CP vaccine to all children then a proportion of those children will grow up either without the financial means or the education/awareness to be able to get a shingles vaccine, so by giving all the children the vaccine in childhood we are putting a proportion of those children in greater danger as adults. This also puts greater stress on the NHS!

Should both CP and shingles vaccines be freely available to everybody on the NHS? Maybe in a perfect world with unlimited cash but there's also an argument to be had that it's not always best to keep vaccinating against any and every illness just because we can, especially where the illness is low risk and with mild symptoms, I mean where do we stop - vaccinating against the common cold?

I'm absolutely pro vaxx but where it is based on balance, risk and common sense. Oh, and for the benefit of the masses and not just the privileged few.

@Oblomov21

I don't agree with chicken pox vaccine. And it definitely shouldn't be free. If you want to pay, go ahead. Both of mine had it, naturally, as did everyone I know. It's fine.

MMR I totally support.

It is t ALWAYS fine. Children can DIE from CP. why take the risk if you don’t have to?

Isn’t always fine.

you can pay for it over 50, which is the group most at risk for serious case of shingles.

The NHS vaccinates 70 year old against shingles.

@MrsFezziwig

You need to be age 70+ to get the shingles vaccine

You can have it at age 50+ if you pay for it yourself (according to the NHS website).

But as it only lasts for five years and can't be boosted, you're then unprotected when you're most at risk (at 60-70+)

ahh, no chickenpox = no shingles.