To think it should be free and part of the childhood vaccines?

[CottonCandy01]

Hello,

My friend's son is getting his chickenpox vaccine next week, I believe it is costing around 140-150 pounds for the two doses. It got me thinking about my own young child (currently 6 months) and if this is a path I should take - on balance, i think I will get it for her.

The problem I have with this, is after researching why we don't have it as part of the childhood vaccines here this is what it returned:

*So why doesn’t the UK use the chickenpox vaccine for children if it is safe and effective at preventing severe disease? All vaccines in the UK are assessed for their cost-effectiveness to ensure that the health budget spent on services which provide the greatest health benefit for the population as a whole.

In the last review of the chickenpox vaccine by the committee which advises the government on vaccines (the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, JCVI), the future modelling of the impact of vaccination indicated that there could be an increase in the rate of shingles in adults over time, which would make the vaccine programme not cost-effective.

This is because, if chickenpox in children disappears as a result of a vaccine programme, adults would no longer have their immunity boosted by exposure to their chickenpox-suffering children and grandchildren and would be more likely to get shingles. Put simply, the conclusion of the previous review was that it would not be cost-effective for the NHS to immunise children against chickenpox*

So if I'm reading that correctly, it is basically because we can't afford it? I'm not naive or an idiot, I know the NHS is hideously underfunded but I just think it is so wrong. I'm in a privileged position that I can afford to vaccinate my child, as can my friend, but for those who can't I think it is really crappy. Chickenpox is not always a mild disease, it doesn't look like something that should even be in circulation in 2021, I remember my younger siblings, crying in pain all night and hitting temps over 40, one of them had to go to hospital.

Not sure what my AIBU is here but I just can't believe it isn't part of the vaccination schedule over here when it is in so many other countries. Seems so wrong.

@lordalmighty cancer patients are not vaccinated against chicken pox as chemo wipes out vaccines so no point. My DS had to have all his childhood vaccines again after chemo so he was vulnerable for 3 years against all the childhood illnesses

I've vaccinated my two children for several reasons:

• usually mild but having read horror stories of serious cases, not a chance I want to take
• cheaper than needing time off work if they're infectious
• not concerned about it wearing off as there will be a lot more evidence about this by then so we know for certain how long immunity lasts, and if necessary I'll get them a booster before they go off to university
• I have facial scarring from chickenpox and still remember how painful and itchy it was even though I only had it relatively mildly, and I don't want them to suffer the same

I think it will be added to the vaccine schedule in the next few years. Having the MMRV makes sense.

@lordalmighty cancer patients are not vaccinated against chicken pox as chemo wipes out vaccines so no point.

Then why are they vaccinating people undergoing active chemo in group 4? Genuine question

You can get shingles if you’ve had chicken pox OR the chicken pox vaccine. In fact, they’ve studied children who have had the vaccine and come down with shingles a few years later.

This was the point I was trying to make @PlanDeRaccordement ie having the vaccine doesn't mean you won't get shingles, which is worse than having chicken pox!

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

Not all chemo patients have their immune systems wiped out so can be vaccinated with a low immune system. But blood cancer patients particularly and bone marrow/stem cell transplant patients will have no immune system and the chemo wipes out immunity to everything including vaccines and past illnesses. My DS had the flu vaccine on treatment but only because it's done yearly. A chicken pox vaccine would have to redone frequently on treatment and they wouldn't do that, along with MMR, tetanus, polio etc

I'm in Aus- chickenpox is part of the vaccination schedule , given at 18monhts.

My kid caught it at 13months from a vaccinated child (who gets a smidge of the varicella virus). Then aged 10 also caught shingles.
Apparently shingles in kids is very rare, but we were lucky.

So CP does not provide immunity against shingles.

[quote ancientgran]**@CuriousaboutSamphire* Possibly because it wasn't an injection. It was a sugar cube or dripped directly onto the tongue.* It definitely was an injection in the 50s, the oral vaccine didn't come out till the 60s.[/quote]
Ah! I had mine early 70s. I remember my father hiding behind us, scared of needles, and the nure looking at him like he was mad!

@DemiGorgon I think you are misunderstanding something: So CP does not provide immunity against shingles

You can only get shingles if you had chicken pox in the past. If someone who has had chicken pox already is exposed to chicken pox again its supposed to boost the immune system and help prevent them from developing shingles.

P.s. my ds had chicken pox at 5½ months and shingles age 3, as apparently, getting CP under 1 year makes it more likely to get childhood shingles

It's not that having chickenpox as a child makes it less likely that you as an individual will get shingles as an adult. The evidence as analysed so far is that once you have recovered from chicken pox and have immunity, regular exposure to the virus (due to it being endemic in the population) keeps that immunity live and that protects against shingles.

It would be therefore irresponsible to add the chickenpox vaccine to the general childhood schedule without also rolling out a massive programme to get all 40-115 year olds vaccinated against shingles. That is of course possible (and wouldn't be quite as much hoohar as the current race to give the covid vaccine to all adults because it could take place over a few years rather than trying to get it all done in 6 months) but it would be a massive undertaking.

Do the cuntries which offer CP vaccine for kids have an integrated healthcare system like the nhs where the same body deciding what childhood vaccines to offer is also responsible for the healthcare of the older people whose health could suffer as a result?

Of course if further analysis shows that the protective effect of exposure to chickenpox isn't as significant as previous analysis demonstrated then it would be fine to change the vaccine plans accordingly. However that is a decision that should be based solely on the results of sound and repeatable scientific research, not on the basis of popular opinion among non-scientists.

@FrangipaniBlue

You can get shingles if you’ve had chicken pox OR the chicken pox vaccine. In fact, they’ve studied children who have had the vaccine and come down with shingles a few years later.

This was the point I was trying to make @PlanDeRaccordement ie having the vaccine doesn't mean you won't get shingles, which is worse than having chicken pox!

Great! So much misinformation. In fact the CP vaccine initially caused a big increase in childhood shingles. It was the reason many countries added a CP vaccine booster (second dose age 5-7) was to boost immunity and reduce the childhood shingles rate back down.

In response to pretty much everything on the last page of this post, it really does depend on whether the exposure to chickenpox has as much of an effect on developing shingles as previously thought. From what I have seen, it is not looking likely, it looks like it was overestimated, and yes, there are also opinion that it was also taken into account those that were already worried about vaccinations because of the autism rumours. That Wakefield has got a bloody lot to answer for. Me and my brother weren't vaccinated ourselves because of it and I had to get them myself when I was older.

@Cloudfrost

I grew up abroad in a country where chickenpox vaccine is standard for all kids. I had the vaccine as a child, dis not stop me from getting chickenpox when my nursery child caught it at nursery and then gave it to me and both his siblings. At age 30+,it was reaaaaly bad, my face looked like a burn victim, completely unrecognisable. Apparently the vaccine is not as effective in giving you immunity and/or the immunity may not be permanent

Based on my experience, I d suggest just hoping ur kid gets it early in life and be done with it

Out of interest is a booster recommended in the country that you grew up?

@JimmyTheBrave I believe so I vaguely remember multiple vaccines as a child and had a book to keep track of them, definitely more than offered in UK
Also vaccination is mandatory for enrollment in school, and homeschooling is not a thing there, so pretty much no one gets chickenpox anymore there.

@cloudfrost thanks, I'll keep a booster at the back of my mind for DS for when he's older

it is because chicken pox is a mild illness in children, and so doesnt necessarily meet the criteria for vaccine rollout. however in adults it is a much worse disease, so ideally they want everyone to catch it as a child