Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the way some birth mothers are treat is appalling

999 replies

SpringHasSprung20 · 21/02/2021 17:19

A decade ago when I was still in my teens I had a baby removed from me at birth by social services and put up for adoption against my will.

It wasn't me who was the risk, I was being abused by the father and fought so hard to get away, have him prosecuted and keep my baby. I've posted about my story before.

Fast forward to now I'm approaching 30. I have a family and I'm living on the other side of the country with two subsequent children in my care full time with no SS involvement. I have a good life and haven't spoken to the abusive ex since I left him. I'm a different person. A strong person.

SS never allowed to meet the adoptive parents because I was opposing the adoption.

Do you know what contact I have with my son? One letter per year, due every April but it's usually always months late.

All of my letters are inspected by an adoption social work team before they'll be passed on to the adoptive parents/my son. Protocol. Most years they are sent back to me to edit out parts where I've told him I love him or miss him. I'm not allowed to say that, it's too emotional apparently.

I'm not daft, I know it's not in his best interests for me to be emotional in letters so I never am - but I do want him to know he's loved.

They are pedantic beyond comprehension. One year I had a letter telling me he was doing well in school, in my reply I said I was proud and he's such a clever boy. They sent my letter back and made me change "you are so clever" to "you sound clever"

I've had to plead with the adoption team for years to ask the family if I can have a photo, after 8 years of the adoption team saying "we don't let birth parents have photos" a kind contact coordinator finally agreed to ask the family for me.

The family took a while to decide but agreed I could see a photo. I can't keep it though.

I have to liase with an adoption team in my area and ask that the photo be sent to them so I can go into the office and look at it on a computer screen. Once. That won't happen this year because of covid so I have another year to wait before I can even catch a glimpse of my little boy. I have no idea what he looks like other than the sweet 6 month old face I have in a photo album, taken at our "goodbye contact"

I'm not allowed to send birthday cards or presents because it's a pain for the adoption agency to facilitate.

I have a box here that I save his cards in every year but that's not the point really is it? Imagine being a child and never getting a birthday card from your mum.

I'm not allowed to tell him about his siblings in letters. I talk to them about him all of the time but they must be kept secret.

All of the above is wrapped up as being in his best interests of course, but is it really?

I don't think he'll feel that way later on.

If you were adopted wouldn't you want to know that your 'birth' mother loved you? Would you be happy to only hear from her once a year?

I'm not a criminal and I've never hurt a child or been accused of it. I'm a good person and a good mother. I have the backing of SS here completely, after I approached them when I moved here. The senior manager raised her own concerns about how I was treat by that local authority and couldn't believe the way they work.

AIBU to think the way some birth mothers are treat is appalling? I'm not referring to abusive people or people who neglect their children, but people like me and others who were let down terribly.

I cannot move past the injustice of it all.

OP posts:
DenisetheMenace · 21/02/2021 23:15

2021namechanger

@DenisetheMenace if the child has been happily adopted into a happy home - they have t suffered an injustice.

The mother has.

Wrongly taken from their birth mother is not an injustice to the child? Wow.

2021namechanger · 21/02/2021 23:19

I’m not going to respond in the way I wish to as I don’t want to upset the OP

However the child has a stable, non violent functional happy home. He has not suffered.

WasThereAplan · 21/02/2021 23:19

@DenisetheMenace

2021namechanger

@DenisetheMenace if the child has been happily adopted into a happy home - they have t suffered an injustice.

The mother has.

Wrongly taken from their birth mother is not an injustice to the child? Wow.

Exactly. If a child is loved safe and happy then removed that is an injustice for mother and child and so damaging.
RickiTarr · 21/02/2021 23:20

Absolutely brilliant post.

Thanks @Allthepopularkids

It really frightens me that these batshit opinions are gaining ground. Any one of us could get sucked into a DV relationship if the circumstances were right (wrong).

2021namechanger · 21/02/2021 23:20

@WasThereAplan at birth? Why so damaging exactly? And also safe is the key term here really.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 21/02/2021 23:20

@DenisetheMenace The OP might theoretically get Parliament to change the law, but she can't do it before her DS becomes an adult, so it would have no bearing on contact with him.

And what you think you would do in a situation you have never experienced is not of much relevance. Stop feeding the OP bullshit when you clearly don't understand the Law. You're not helping her, you're just pointlessly grandstanding about how wonderful you would be in her circumstances.

2021namechanger · 21/02/2021 23:21

@RickiTarr

Absolutely brilliant post.

Thanks @Allthepopularkids

It really frightens me that these batshit opinions are gaining ground. Any one of us could get sucked into a DV relationship if the circumstances were right (wrong).

And if it caused damage to your children should that not be a concern?
Allthepopularkids · 21/02/2021 23:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

endlesssnow · 21/02/2021 23:23

Social workers won't penalize any mother leaving an abusive situation to protect their child.

Child protection social workers are there to protect children, not their mothers. So what they are looking for is an ability to protect their children.

It is understandable if as abused victims mothers are unable to do this.
It is not however the primary concern of a child's social worker.

A DA worker will focus on this.
A drugs worker will focus on support for drugs.
A CPN will focus on parental mental health.

Childrens' Social workers are going to focus on children. They will give support to families around any issue but the dc is the focus not the adult issue.

2021namechanger · 21/02/2021 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

RickiTarr · 21/02/2021 23:26

@2021namechanger

I’m not going to respond in the way I wish to as I don’t want to upset the OP

However the child has a stable, non violent functional happy home. He has not suffered.

He had his “goodbye contact” with his birth mother when he was six months old. Of course he’s bloody well suffered.

We’re their foster placements between his removal and his adoptive placement? How many upheavals did he go through as a tiny baby? How much will he struggle with his identity as he grows?

I don’t know. You don’t know. It’s not ideal, though, is it? It’s traumatising to be put through any of that, and criminal if it wasn’t necessary.

If also think it was the ultimate nightmare of any stranger adoption (as opposed to family adoption which I am more familiar with) for the adoptive parents to at some point realise or suspect that their child didn’t need to be removed from their BM - that is was wrongful. Imagine how that would feel.

Nobody wins in these injustice situations.

WasThereAplan · 21/02/2021 23:27

[quote 2021namechanger]@WasThereAplan at birth? Why so damaging exactly? And also safe is the key term here really.[/quote]
Hugely damaging if there is no real safeguarding issue

In OPs case there should have been a massive effort to protect her and her child and support. Not removal. I’m sorry but it’s wrong and OP has every right to feel the way she does and she should be allowed to tell HER child she loves him and have a photo.

Are we really at a point in time where a totally innocent mother who needed support and protection is treated like a criminal ? And we can’t even acknowledge that without being told we don’t care about the child’s welfare and their ‘new’ family. How sad if we are 😞

SoulofanAggron · 21/02/2021 23:27

Anyway I have no idea what you want from this thread

@FlorenceandPaul I think it's called empathy. You could try it sometime.

RickiTarr · 21/02/2021 23:28

We’re their foster placements

That should read “Were there foster....”

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 21/02/2021 23:28

Well that is what our society says
Adoption is irreversible in pretty much all circumstances even if the reason for removal is found to be incorrect

And that is right because the child
is more important than any adult and they should not be re-traumatised by being moved again after years.

There was a famous case of a couple in Norfolk who had 3 children adopted because of serious injuries to their baby and in the end it was found years later that the baby had rickets. They did not get the children back because that would not have been in those children's interests.
Really really horrible terrible injustice for them but still the right decision not to uproot the children again.

The testimony of the adopted people in this thread is powerful and they almost all say that they would not have wanted more contact as children with their birth families because they were happy as they are.

If you read adoption judgements (I do for professional reasons although not a SW) you will see that there is famous case law which is always quoted that adoption IS the last resort. That 'diverse standards of parenting should be tolerated in society including the eccentric and the barely adequate' and that adoption is NOT about social engineering it is a last resort where a child is at risk and 'nothing else will do' to protect them. That is the law.

Social workers are humans
Mistakes can certainly be made
But I do not believe the system is inherently biased against birth parents and towards adoption
I see a whole lot more of the opposite direction. I pick up the pieces in my job of people traumatised by their abusive, neglected childhoods. I wish some of those people could have been saved from that.
More could certainly be done to support birth parents but resources are limited and if the child cannot be safe with the support that there is in the real world then in the end the child matters more. They have a right to be safe.

OP I have no idea about your particular case as none of us can. It may have been one of the rare mistakes which I do not deny happen or it may not.

When people have voted YABU you took it personally but that's not what you asked. You asked if in general people think birth parents are treated poorly not you personally.
I cannot agree that in general the system is biased against birth parents. If you didn't want debate and just support then AIBU is not the place. You will get dissenting opinions on AIBU as that's what you asked.

DenisetheMenace · 21/02/2021 23:29

MissLucyEyelesbarrow

And what you think you would do in a situation you have never experienced is not of much relevance. Stop feeding the OP bullshit when you clearly don't understand the Law. You're not helping her, you're just pointlessly grandstanding about how wonderful you would be in her circumstances.“

😳

I know where I’m coming from and my opinion is strongly held but I obviously have no inkling of your circumstances.
I apologise because I’ve clearly upset you.

And no, I’m not wonderful.

GrumpyHoonMain · 21/02/2021 23:30

Social workers will support a woman who wishes to leave her violent partner. But yes ultimately when all efforts fail or sexual abuse / drugs are involved then they will choose to the interests of the child. For Op to have lost a baby at 6 months old, that child would probably have been fostered at birth or not long after that. This isn’t a quick process at all.

Allthepopularkids · 21/02/2021 23:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WasThereAplan · 21/02/2021 23:32

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

Well that is what our society says Adoption is irreversible in pretty much all circumstances even if the reason for removal is found to be incorrect

And that is right because the child
is more important than any adult and they should not be re-traumatised by being moved again after years.

There was a famous case of a couple in Norfolk who had 3 children adopted because of serious injuries to their baby and in the end it was found years later that the baby had rickets. They did not get the children back because that would not have been in those children's interests.
Really really horrible terrible injustice for them but still the right decision not to uproot the children again.

The testimony of the adopted people in this thread is powerful and they almost all say that they would not have wanted more contact as children with their birth families because they were happy as they are.

If you read adoption judgements (I do for professional reasons although not a SW) you will see that there is famous case law which is always quoted that adoption IS the last resort. That 'diverse standards of parenting should be tolerated in society including the eccentric and the barely adequate' and that adoption is NOT about social engineering it is a last resort where a child is at risk and 'nothing else will do' to protect them. That is the law.

Social workers are humans
Mistakes can certainly be made
But I do not believe the system is inherently biased against birth parents and towards adoption
I see a whole lot more of the opposite direction. I pick up the pieces in my job of people traumatised by their abusive, neglected childhoods. I wish some of those people could have been saved from that.
More could certainly be done to support birth parents but resources are limited and if the child cannot be safe with the support that there is in the real world then in the end the child matters more. They have a right to be safe.

OP I have no idea about your particular case as none of us can. It may have been one of the rare mistakes which I do not deny happen or it may not.

When people have voted YABU you took it personally but that's not what you asked. You asked if in general people think birth parents are treated poorly not you personally.
I cannot agree that in general the system is biased against birth parents. If you didn't want debate and just support then AIBU is not the place. You will get dissenting opinions on AIBU as that's what you asked.

I think they should have got their children back actually. The children would probably have been happier too who is the judge of whether they’d be traumatised. If my child was taken now who is lived safe secure and happy and ripped away say for years I know they’d spend each day wanting to be home and not understanding why they’d been taken and if returned would then be happy.

Maybe if adoption was reversible if found to be wrongful removal then proper checks would be put in place to make sure mistakes didn’t happen

SoulofanAggron · 21/02/2021 23:32

However the child has a stable, non violent functional happy home. He has not suffered.

@2021namechanger He could have and could've had a stable, non violent, functional, happy home with his bio mum. That'd be even better.

Assuming there's not much wrong with the mum then no-one will probably understand a baby like his own mum who has half his genes. And probably no-one will ever love him as much as she does.

Scout2016 · 21/02/2021 23:32

There are no where near enough support services for victims of domestic violence. The support social services can offer is very limited - referral to DV programmes, counselling or housing services then phone calls chasing these up. A lift to a refuge, help getting a non molestation order maybe. But SS don't run these services, most are charities and they are massively over stretched.

RickiTarr · 21/02/2021 23:34

@endlesssnow

Social workers won't penalize any mother leaving an abusive situation to protect their child.

Child protection social workers are there to protect children, not their mothers. So what they are looking for is an ability to protect their children.

It is understandable if as abused victims mothers are unable to do this.
It is not however the primary concern of a child's social worker.

A DA worker will focus on this.
A drugs worker will focus on support for drugs.
A CPN will focus on parental mental health.

Childrens' Social workers are going to focus on children. They will give support to families around any issue but the dc is the focus not the adult issue.

That’s how it is supposed to work. We understand that.

It’s probably how it usually works, but it’s quite clear by now that it doesn’t always go by the book, or the conclusions reached aren’t always correct.

Look at Ms Cox and Mr Carter. There no remedy when mistakes are made precisely because the DCs’ stability is prioritised.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-46568046

That leaves a minority of BPs in an awful position like OP where they can’t get justice and they can’t heal. The least we can do is acknowledge their pain. No system is ever correct every time.

WasThereAplan · 21/02/2021 23:35

It’s far too easy for ss to remove based on threat of future harm too and to rush ahead with orders and adoption than to pause and investigate properly and thoroughly and spend money on support and protection

2021namechanger · 21/02/2021 23:36

@SoulofanAggron

However the child has a stable, non violent functional happy home. He has not suffered.

@2021namechanger He could have and could've had a stable, non violent, functional, happy home with his bio mum. That'd be even better.

Assuming there's not much wrong with the mum then no-one will probably understand a baby like his own mum who has half his genes. And probably no-one will ever love him as much as she does.

Well there’s nothing wrong with my birth parents - but I can assure you that my actual mother loves me and understands me far more than they do.

Pretty sure most adopted people on this thread will agree.

BluebelllsRosesDaffodills · 21/02/2021 23:36

@SpringHasSprung20

the birth parents are given so many more chances than I feel is right, or in the best interests of the child

Well that's not my experience.

They didn't give any indication that they were planning to remove him until I was 36 weeks pregnant and refused to support me relocating at 20 weeks pregnant, to get away from the father, because it would "disrupt the assessment"

Never mind plenty of chances, I didn't get one.

They messed up.

How did SS become involved anyway?

What support did you need to relocate? Could you have got Woman’s Aid to help you to leave your abusive partner?