Sex in marriage. Different views

[Iwonder08]

I've seen quite a few posts about different attitude to sex between husband and wife/partner. They might involve various issues, but essentially come to the fact that they have different sex drive.
I've heard a lot of banter from men talking about their wives along the lines 'trying for a second baby was the only way I could get laid' or '' marriage is the best way to kill your sex life' (I don't approve of such banter but it is not the point of this post).
Here on MN I often see the comments about what women consider unreasonable expectations or worse, various sex offences. Before I go any further I absolutely without any doubt support the fact that no person should have sex when they don't want to. However people seem to have different views on things like:

• A man looks at his wife when she is getting dressed/undressed. I saw comments in various posts saying a man must be sex obsessed and a pervert
• A man touches his wife, let's say bottom. It is always labeled as groping and again, it constitutes a sex assault

-A man tells his wife he wants to have sex, she turns him down. If the request is repeated a man is labeled a sex pest

• A man wants to have sex every day/most of the days - he must be a sex addict.

Quite often the posters recommend to LTB if any of the above is present. Another frequent scenario is a woman complains about her other half, but then casually mentions they had no sex for a year. I am genuinely interested - do women and men in 21st century have such a different view on sex in a committed relationship even though the absolute majority had sex before they got into this relationship? Do women make more effort to have sex more often even when they don't want it at the beginning of the relationship? Or do they lose interest after? How can a man initiate sex if all the above are considered inappropriate? If he just waits until a woman does, what about seduction, is not important? With the exception of temporary physical issues (childbirth, operations, pains etc) does a woman fully expect to stay in a relationship without sex/infrequent sex?

AIBU - nobody should expect regular sex in marriage by default
AINBU - it is unreasonable to expect the other partner to settle for unsatisfactory/infrequent /non-existent marriage

Completely depends on the context of the particular marriage.

Often you will see women on here complaining about being pestered for sex but that is rather like how you often see birth horror stories on here... this isn't happening as a majority its just that this is a site for women to talk about things on and women need to talk about whats bothering them so you will hear more negative stories than positive ones wont you?

I do on the whole think men as a group can be pretty bloody entitled. And are raised to lack emotional intelligence sometimes (obviously this is a massive generalisation and its not ALL men) so in many marriages there will be massive pressure on women to do all this extra domestic work particularly after children are born and men just don't pick up how stressful that is or how they could help or how sexless it can leave a woman feeling when she is working flat out to meet everyone's needs all day and night... thats a common story you hear on here... its not so much that women don't like sex and men do.... but that womens sex drives are often very effected by their situation and how they are being treated.
But as I said I think you will come across negative stories on here because thats what people want to get off their chest not because this is going on in the majority of marriages.

And everyone is an individual with a different sex drive to other people... its always hard when two people get in a relationship and they have very different sex drives... there are also a lot of tales on here about women who want to have sex, in marriages with men who have very low sex drives

My view of it is that in general its very important to make sure you and your partner are pretty equally matched in sex drives when you get together before you make any big commitments
And then if someones sex drive changes over the course of the marriage you need to be compassionate and honestly explore why that is and what can be done rather than just pestering someone or acting entitled..

its not so much that women don't like sex and men do.... but that womens sex drives are often very effected by their situation and how they are being treated.

This is really at the heart of it: men, for the most part, can decouple sex from other areas of their life. Women generally can't do that as easily.

To be receptive a woman has to feel relaxed, trusting, energised. And critically to have some time. These are generally not states which are enhanced by modern women's lives where they are often working full time and doing most of the domestic labour.

I think women enjoy sex more than men, when they get a good experience of it, but so often they don't.

@Crikeycroc

1. I think that women actually get bored of the same sexual partner sooner than men do.

1. Women with children are more tired and resentful from caring the mental load and doing the bulk of the work whilst also feeling very unappreciated.
2. The orgasm gap

Yep.

I think using the same overtures year on year can give a woman the ick.

OP I've had some similar wonderings to you and similarly wasn't sure how behaviour such as trying to initiate / expressing a desire for sex or touching on the bottom etc can be considered "sex pesty". To me these are pretty standard, normal behaviours in a relationship. BUT, having read through some of the responses on this thread I can see where this comes from - I'm I a happy, loving relationship that fulfils not only my sexual needs but my emotional ones too, as well as having a partner who does 50% (sometimes more) of the household stuff. That's the difference I guess, and it seems to be what others are saying. When you have a partner who meets your other needs as a woman, you're more likely to respond favourably expressions of sexual desire. At least that's what I've taken from this thread.

I agree with @Crikeycroc.

DH and I have amazing sex. DH is attentive to my needs and knows what I like. Every time we have sex I orgasm and really enjoy it.

But I am so often overwhelmed by the mental load of work, kids and 10 years of broken nights of sleep that even though I know I would enjoy it, I often turn him down.

Having to time things around the small pockets of time where we have privacy doesn't help either.

As a mother of 3, I am constantly meeting the needs and wants of others at the expense of my own. I don't think sex should be yet another service I have to provide based on someone else's wishes. It should be an activity I partake in with enthusiasm and clear consent.

There are many things I only do with DH which are intimate but not sexual. Sex is not what defines a successful marriage.

The house work thing puzzles me, a couple of my married friend's husbands are great guys. Fully invested in the children, house, relationship etc. But it's gone the other way, my friend's see them as emasculated and they just don't fancy them any more.

When we talk about sex and relationships we all kinds agree a hot bod, master of seduction or to be crude a large c**k (helpful after a few births!) gets the pulse racing. I'm yet to hear one of the girls say what really turns them on is a man comfortable with an iron or taking all the childcare over. We're all tired from children and work but a helpful 50/50 partner doesn't seem to fix anything. We think it's the kids that just kill it regardless how great the guy is.

Maybe the perfect guy is a unicorn, they need to have a bit of an edge of bastard but be superdad too, it just doesn't happen usually.

Obviously context key, I'm only referring to normal fully supportive relationships, not those where advances are unwanted and there are other deep seated issues.

I'm yet to hear one of the girls say what really turns them on is a man comfortable with an iron or taking all the childcare over.

I'm personally more attracted to my DP when he's supporting me domestically, or I see him being a good Dad or stepdad to my daughter. It honestly, genuinely, makes me much more physically attracted to him, as well as strengthening my emotional connection to him. For me there are different levels of attraction, and the physical stuff is really just one part of it.

It’s very complicated, the answer to all those questions and I can only speak from personal experience.

Ex 1 would only ever playfully touch me or kiss me if he wanted to get laid. That was his way of insisting he wanted it.

So it made kissing or the playful stuff you need for a relationship to thrive come with a sting. It took enjoyment out of other things too as time went on. We couldn’t cuddle watching a film because he thought it was a sign for shagging. Nope it’s just a cuddle.

He had the expectation of oral or hand job if I was on my period. I was cramping so bad the only thing on my mind was drugs, hot water bottle and sleep not satisfying him. Something he could easily do himself.

It was as though I had to be able to flip from domestic/student/worker to fully engaged sexual being at the drop of a hat.

Ex 2 was all about the playful stuff and never expected sex but was really rubbish at it. I had a toddler at the time and little energy to teach a toddler potty training and then a partner how to get better on bed. He also had a super tight foreskin he refused to see a DR about that made spontaneous sex none existent as he had to fiddle with it so he didn’t hurt himself. Victim of circumstance and refusal to have medical needs seen to.

Ex 3. I put all the effort in. All the time. Felt like a losing battle and nothing was ever reciprocated. There’s nothing worse than putting effort in with fancy knickers etc when
All I got was a grunt.

And tbh I can’t remember the last time a man gave me an orgasm. All my relationships have been bad sexually. If I tried to bring any issue mostly about me not being satisfied I’d get some blasé response that I wasn’t trying hard enough

I honestly don’t believe there is a bloke that can satisfy my in all the ways I need to. Mind body the lot so I’ve decided to remain single and have a collection of friends to meet my intellectual and social needs and a couple of vibrators to get off with. It’s far from perfect and I really miss those all over body orgasms you get only with someone being attentive all over but I’d take the lacklustre ones over any relationship like the ones I’ve had previously.

Plus I don’t find myself attracted to men who don’t stimulate me mentally.

I'm yet to hear one of the girls say what really turns them on is a man comfortable with an iron or taking all the childcare over.

I don't think people mean that this should make her want sex, it's more that it frees up time and energy.

@NobodyPuttsBabyinCorner - of course doing housework and being a decent parent doesn’t turn women on. It’s the bare minimum the man should do in a relationship so when they don’t do their fair share resentment builds, the woman becomes more fatigued from doing it all and her interest in sex wanes.

Agree with CrickeyCroc.

I haven't RTWT but for me (I was in a marriage with minimal sex)

1. I lost respect for my Exh out of the bedroom
2. there was no intimacy between us outside the bedroom, and very importantly 3. found it really boring having sex with the same guy year on year.

If there was a better connection between us that was nurtured I could get over 3 - but as it was just a physical act I couldn't get excited about shagging him time and time again

I'm yet to hear one of the girls say what really turns them on is a man comfortable with an iron or taking all the childcare over.

I think you're missing the point a bit... its not that women fantasise about a man wearing a pinny doing the ironing. It's that you need to have a certain base level of feeling domestically supported to have the mental and emotional energy for sex in the first place.

It may be that even if your husband is super supportive you still won't feel in the mood sometimes because you're knackered. But its very different from the build-up of resentment you get when you feel that you have to do absolutely everything and are still expected to jump for joy when he tries to feel you up when you're loading the dishwasher.

I can see both sides of this. I have been in one relationship where I felt 100% emotionally supported, safe, loved, desired and cared about. He wanted sex all the time and so did I. I loved him watching me undress and I didn’t mind him waking me in the middle of the night either, as he never once made me feel like a piece of meat at his disposal.
On the other hand, I’ve been in a completely mentally emotionally void relationship where he would grope me whilst cooking dinner and watch me undress, and it would repulse me and immediately kill any urge for sex

[quote Iwonder08]@scentedgeranium - my experience is what I thought was typical. Relatively small number of partners, some bad sex, some good, no abuse. Happily married with a regular and satisfying sex. The reason behind my question was a lot of comments I saw on different threads effectively criminalising male behaviour which I consider perfectly normal. I genuinely want to understand if my view is different from an absolute majority[/quote]
Ca and I ask how old you are? How long married? How many and age of children? Do you work ft? What's the split of the household tasks? Do you have any hormone imbalances or gynae issues? Good financial position?

Reason for asking is that all of the above are relevant and impact on a relationship.

In my 20s I felt very differently to my mid 40s. Poverty, debts, unemployment etc all increase stress which reduces sexual desire. As does tiredness of responsible for working, childcare and household tasks disproportionately. Sleep deprivation, hormonal issues, issued like endometriosis and being perimenopausal etc all impact.

I'm yet to hear one of the girls say what really turns them on is a man comfortable with an iron or taking all the childcare over.

So you’d prefer to wade through a basket of his shirts, ironing them all for him?

Picking up his wet towel from the floor where he’s dropped it for his skivvy?

Collecting his sweaty socks from the floor beside the laundry basket, because he’s too important to do his own washing?

You want to do 100% of the childcare, while he goes off and indulges his hobbies, or hangs out with his mates all weekend? Nips to the pub for a few quick ones while you cook dinner, supervise the homework and the kids to activities?

That gets you going, does it?

The point’s way up there, high-tailing it over your head.

I have to say too, once DH stepped up on the parenting and household chores front I’ve found more respect for him. He is showing more respect for me. We’ve got 3 kids and as he says, “we have to grab our moments when we can.” Invariably that used to piss me right off, but now the kids are a bit older and I’m not doing everything I’m not as knackered. Well ok, let’s go for it.

Sometimes we don’t go full piv but there are other ways to be intimate. For some reason as he’s got older things happen for him much quicker. He’s starting to get embarrassed about it. I’m not too fussed, days of the marathon sex sessions are long gone. I’m not exactly in my prime either and 3 kids has left me self conscious. Knowing he’s got his own ‘demons’ too has helped me chill out a bit over it. I suppose not watching porn has helped. He’s the first man I’ve be with who doesn’t watch porn. I’d get mighty self conscious having to compete with that.

It’s all about respect and communication at the end of the day.

I have been married for over 10 years and we still have a very passionate relantionship and spark.. And fancy the socks off of eachother.

I put this down to not only nuturing our emotional connection.. But also having a great sex life.... and we never refuse eachother when the other is in the mood - it's worked for us! We have sex at least 5 times a week still to this day!

@Sunshine3013

I have been married for over 10 years and we still have a very passionate relantionship and spark.. And fancy the socks off of eachother.

I put this down to not only nuturing our emotional connection.. But also having a great sex life.... and we never refuse eachother when the other is in the mood - it's worked for us! We have sex at least 5 times a week still to this day!

I mis read that as five times a day and thought jeez what am I doing wrong in my relationship?! 🤣

I dont think that this issue is as irregular as people like to think.
More often than not it seems that there is a disparity between people's sex drives. It may not be like that in the beginning. I think it tends to get worse as you become worn out by the monotony of life.
Children, housework, work, and many of us get in a rut and don't feel sexy. Oftentimes our partners don't lose that because as life has moved on, they often don't pick up additional responsibilities.

Lol 😂 @louJ85