Sex in marriage. Different views

[Iwonder08]

I've seen quite a few posts about different attitude to sex between husband and wife/partner. They might involve various issues, but essentially come to the fact that they have different sex drive.
I've heard a lot of banter from men talking about their wives along the lines 'trying for a second baby was the only way I could get laid' or '' marriage is the best way to kill your sex life' (I don't approve of such banter but it is not the point of this post).
Here on MN I often see the comments about what women consider unreasonable expectations or worse, various sex offences. Before I go any further I absolutely without any doubt support the fact that no person should have sex when they don't want to. However people seem to have different views on things like:

• A man looks at his wife when she is getting dressed/undressed. I saw comments in various posts saying a man must be sex obsessed and a pervert
• A man touches his wife, let's say bottom. It is always labeled as groping and again, it constitutes a sex assault

-A man tells his wife he wants to have sex, she turns him down. If the request is repeated a man is labeled a sex pest

• A man wants to have sex every day/most of the days - he must be a sex addict.

Quite often the posters recommend to LTB if any of the above is present. Another frequent scenario is a woman complains about her other half, but then casually mentions they had no sex for a year. I am genuinely interested - do women and men in 21st century have such a different view on sex in a committed relationship even though the absolute majority had sex before they got into this relationship? Do women make more effort to have sex more often even when they don't want it at the beginning of the relationship? Or do they lose interest after? How can a man initiate sex if all the above are considered inappropriate? If he just waits until a woman does, what about seduction, is not important? With the exception of temporary physical issues (childbirth, operations, pains etc) does a woman fully expect to stay in a relationship without sex/infrequent sex?

AIBU - nobody should expect regular sex in marriage by default
AINBU - it is unreasonable to expect the other partner to settle for unsatisfactory/infrequent /non-existent marriage

Mackencheese thank you. I hope you are happier in the long run and enjoy your freedom.

I think for a lot of women it's when children come into the equation and the man shows himself to be less than an equally committed parent. At least that was the issue in my case and a couple of my close friends and I see it a lot on here too.

I had a high sex drive pre-DC. My DHs was higher but generally it was all very compatible and we were both very happy. We only had ourselves to think of and had plenty of time/energy.

Then I had two DC 14 months apart - ergo no more time no more energy for a couple of years! If he had been a hands on parent/did his share around the house and taken some of the burden off me then obviously I would have more time, energy and inclination to have sex. He didn't do this and I was a stressed out exhausted wreck with a baby who never slept and a husband who left every single night waking to me.

When I hear those old tropes (and I was guilty of thinking this too when I was younger) about women "letting themselves go" and going off sex after DC and the poor man being sex starved I always think it's most likely his fault and the woman is most likely struggling with all the drudgery grinding her down. With the added bonus of all the resentment of this situation serving the final blow to her libido.

I think it's about seeing your partner as a sex object rather than a person.
For me sex is something that comes from wanting to be with your partner, enjoying the closeness of the relationship. It's from a desire to please each other and make each other feel good.
If I've spent my day looking after people and making them feel good, come bedtime I've run out of 'give'. If I've been looked after, then I'm more likely to want to continue the good feeling.

I don't understand wanting sex with someone you don't like at the moment- and a lot of people treat their partner like someone they don't like.

DH had worked out that when we go away for the weekend without the kids, in a hotel, we generally have sex. I started to dread going away because he'd plan an itinerary of places he wanted to go. Park in the cheapest car parks so I'd be tired from all the walking. I do all the driving. He'd decide when it was time for an icecream, and was too tight to pay for cake and a coffee in a coffee shop- he'd carry cans and ration a bag of Maltesers... I so didn't feel looked after and appreciated!

I don't remember being taught anything about the clitorus in sex Ed, or how to please a woman.

So many men are just shit at sex and put no effort in, once the "honeymoon" period is over, I think women feel " bloody hell, is this it?" and stop wanting sex, pleasure themselves.

I know I would go months and months without sex with my exhusband, whose tag line was "are we going to have sex then or what!"

My new relationship is great, fantastic sex and I want it all the time. He is also a joint partner in the home, he sees what needs to be done and just does it.

I just wanted to add it works both ways. And another factor is mental health. My husband has depression and it's been 3 years since he's wanted sex. I miss it like mad but I committed to be with him and we have a family together. What can you do?

Anyway, to the point, mental health can have a massive impact.

I think for many women ,having DC in the house and the thought of being "heard" or worse walked in on is a turn off .Also the amount of women on here decrying their partners lack of help at home.In the last few weeks on here alone . A lady taking to her bedroom to shame family into doing their share.Another asking how long does it take to clean a whole house in one day?(Too long by yourself obv!)and so on .Everyone needs to share chores .It must be a passion killer that you have worked your butt off only to be expected to have Sex when knackered!

@Iwonder08

A few posters mentioned girls from a very young age are taught to see their sexuality only as pleasing men rather than enjoying sex themselves.. Where do they get it from? Any parents of teenage daughters here? Do you talk to them about sex apart from safety aspect?

Where do they get it? That will be the patriarchy.

And if your thinking of the same thread as I am, it was constant groping after being asked to stop and sulking when not allowed.

If the partner whose bum is squeezed leans back into your hand and sighs happily- great! Do it again.
If they huff, twist away, slap your hand off or tell you to stop.... then sodding well stop.

It really isn't hard. If you've been really lucky and only had welcome approaches, then fabulous! Good for you! That doesn't mean that all approaches are welcome, just because you are married.

I don't think marriage is the death knell of a sex life. We got married later (early to mid 30s) and we'd already had the kids. We'd been through the low sex phase when the kids were younger and after marriage it really renewed our love and passion for each other. I think that coupled with women reaching their sexual peak later and our children being self sufficient now has all helped as well as DH being an equal partner in the house and an appreciative husband and not a sex pest.

I live on my own, I can afford to do so quite comfortably, mainly because I am sick of being the default house cleaner and maid of all work when I work full time.
I have a low sex drive and find my hobbies and interests much more important than messy sex and wasting the day in bed when I want to be out and about.
I find the absolute resentment of being expected to be Mrs Mop in all my relationships totally wipes out what sex drive I have. I have no doubt I'd have a much higher sex drive if I respected the man I lived with.
I want a man who is a joint partner in life, who doesn't whine about sex all the time, gets up in the morning, works, does stuff like DIY, gardening without moaning, doesn't piss around the loo seat, has moral standards, takes pride in his home, is considerate, unfortunately I've never found one although I have seen them occasionally married to other people.

The last time my DH walked in the room while I was getting changed he averted his eyes and dashed back out. I miss being looked at like I am desirable. I don't think it is sex pesty to look at your partner, or want to touch them. As with most things in a relationship, communication is key.

Those examples you give are taken out of context. It's not about groping or touching the woman, it's that they don't like it, they tell the man to stop but the man continues to do it. Some women like this some don't. Having your fanny groped while you are busy cooking dinner would piss many women off.

All other examples are not contextual too

@SpikeTheDragon

I just wanted to add it works both ways. And another factor is mental health. My husband has depression and it's been 3 years since he's wanted sex. I miss it like mad but I committed to be with him and we have a family together. What can you do?

Anyway, to the point, mental health can have a massive impact.

That is a huge sacrifice in my view. I hope things work out well for both of you.

The posts you see on here just reinforce the gender stereotypes.
Man writes post - my wife won’t have sex with me. Replies - stop being a sex pest, she’s tired etc
Woman writes post - my husband won’t have sex with me. Replies - he’s a porn addict LTB

I often wonder about this as the mother of three boys. When I was in my 20's, my interactions all kind of started the same way, out in a pub and someone came and started chatting , after an amount of time, they would typically 'lob the gob' and they were either welcomed or rebuffed at that stage. That behaviour today I've seem described as sexual assault. Is it ever appropriate to make a pass at someone anymore?

NC for this.

My husband's having an affair. I'm super shocked because I just didn't think it was his style at all. Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised, we haven't had sex in almost 18 months. Is it my fault? Partly I guess, but not entirely.

I was diagnosed with a brain tumour (not a life threatening one) 6 years ago. I also have hyperthyroidism treated with drugs. Both these cause reduced libido. Then at the lovely age of 53, there's menopause...

I would enjoy sex if there was any enjoyment for me. As it is, none of my needs are taken into consideration. I like massages, back tickling, sensuousness. He likes treating my nipples and clitoris like he's trying to tune an old radio. I've shown him time and time again how to give me the most pleasure but he knows best what I should like you see. The foreplay goes on for 20 mins before in the end I'll feign lust just to begin intercourse and get it over with.

The intercourse goes on for 40 minutes - at least. I know this because I glance at the time reflected above the bed. I get no feedback from him except a glazed look and some heavy breathing, the odd grunt and an occasional comment about my tight c**t being great. I used to pretend to enjoy but not anymore. I end up red raw and riddled with thrush for days because any lube's been well worn away (usually at the foreplay stage).

My husband says he struggles to ejaculate because he's on tablets for pain. I don't think this is entirely true because he always taken ages even when the relationship was brand new.

My view is it has to be a two way street. He has to make an effort to try and listen and please me. It's not solely 'my job' to keep him sexually happy. The responsibility should be on both of us. I think if it was a 5 minute jobbie I'd be able to tolerate it, not ideal, but tolerable. As it stands, almost an hour is too much for my 53 year old 'c**t' to bear.

So here we are after 20+ years of marriage about to talk divorce. Its funny, because I thought we vowed to support each other in sickness and in health.

Funny old world...

One thing that I find odd on here is the number of posters who can't understand that someone might have had different experiences to them and consequently will react in a different way.

You have a mutually respectful and happy relationship and enjoy your husband squeezing your bum/watching you get undressed? Great.

Someone else has a husband who is unsupportive with dc and chores, sulks whenever he doesn't get sex on demand and doesn't listen when their partner says they don't want to be constantly touched? Not so great and they will probably avoid getting undressed in front of their partner for that very reason.

Having seen some of your previous posts op, I would say that you are one of the ones who finds it difficult to understand that others will have had have very different experiences in their relationships.

@Crazycrazylady

I often wonder about this as the mother of three boys. When I was in my 20's, my interactions all kind of started the same way, out in a pub and someone came and started chatting , after an amount of time, they would typically 'lob the gob' and they were either welcomed or rebuffed at that stage. That behaviour today I've seem described as sexual assault. Is it ever appropriate to make a pass at someone anymore?

Well, of course it is if the person making the pass shows respect and listens to the other person.

Honestly, I despair sometimes.

@MidLifeCrisisSucks

NC for this.

My husband's having an affair. I'm super shocked because I just didn't think it was his style at all. Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised, we haven't had sex in almost 18 months. Is it my fault? Partly I guess, but not entirely.

I was diagnosed with a brain tumour (not a life threatening one) 6 years ago. I also have hyperthyroidism treated with drugs. Both these cause reduced libido. Then at the lovely age of 53, there's menopause...

I would enjoy sex if there was any enjoyment for me. As it is, none of my needs are taken into consideration. I like massages, back tickling, sensuousness. He likes treating my nipples and clitoris like he's trying to tune an old radio. I've shown him time and time again how to give me the most pleasure but he knows best what I should like you see. The foreplay goes on for 20 mins before in the end I'll feign lust just to begin intercourse and get it over with.

The intercourse goes on for 40 minutes - at least. I know this because I glance at the time reflected above the bed. I get no feedback from him except a glazed look and some heavy breathing, the odd grunt and an occasional comment about my tight c**t being great. I used to pretend to enjoy but not anymore. I end up red raw and riddled with thrush for days because any lube's been well worn away (usually at the foreplay stage).

My husband says he struggles to ejaculate because he's on tablets for pain. I don't think this is entirely true because he always taken ages even when the relationship was brand new.

My view is it has to be a two way street. He has to make an effort to try and listen and please me. It's not solely 'my job' to keep him sexually happy. The responsibility should be on both of us. I think if it was a 5 minute jobbie I'd be able to tolerate it, not ideal, but tolerable. As it stands, almost an hour is too much for my 53 year old 'c**t' to bear.

So here we are after 20+ years of marriage about to talk divorce. Its funny, because I thought we vowed to support each other in sickness and in health.

Funny old world...

God that sounds awful, MidLife. You deserve better than that.

Having children absolutely ruined our relationship. We stopped going out with each other as we had zero support network and the children were demanding. The fun ended, the sex ended and eventually the marriage ended. We loved each other so much before we had kids. It was heartbreaking when we split up. He is now enjoying what we had with someone else. You really need to work very hard after having kids to keep the flame burning.

@midlifecrisissucks..your husband is awful, you absolutely deserve better!

I have managed to have a satisfying sex life for 30 years without my husband doing any of the things described in your OP.

He somehow manages to make me feel desired and loved without ogling me, groping me or demanding sex.

He is well attuned to me so can tell by my demeanour whether I am likely to be in the mood for sex before he suggests it, and if I say sorry, no, I’d like to but I’m too tired he would never, ever repeat the request.

What you see all the time on here are men who make no effort whatsoever to try and understand what their wives need or want most at that point in time, whether that be a particular sex/sensual act or just a fucking clean house, a meal on the table and a break from the kids.

That’s what kills libido. No one wants to feel like a wank sock.

3 pages of responses and there is one thing everyone is mentioning.. Bloody housework. It is shocking.. Why so many men are still allowed to rely on women for all the housework/looking after children?! Even when both partners work... I do most of the cooking, but I rarely do any cleaning or laundry.. Sometimes we swap if it is more convenient. Almost 50/50 split for childcare as well..
This should be added to sex education program

@Iwonder08

3 pages of responses and there is one thing everyone is mentioning.. Bloody housework. It is shocking.. Why so many men are still allowed to rely on women for all the housework/looking after children?! Even when both partners work... I do most of the cooking, but I rarely do any cleaning or laundry.. Sometimes we swap if it is more convenient. Almost 50/50 split for childcare as well.. This should be added to sex education program

That and female irgasm, and the clitoris. So many men are clueless and useless on that front, and frankly wives get bored. My dh flatly refused to cook, or meet the kids emotional/homework/fun needs. He did the ironing and gardening, but without marital intimacy that is just not enough! May as well just have a janitor....

I’ve read on MN cases where a husband/partner is accused of sexual assault and even rape for starting to caress his wife while she is sleeping or even while she was awake and he hadn’t asked permission first!

To me that is ridiculous. DH and I have never asked one another for permission to instigate intimacy. However if I woke up to DH caressing me and I wasn’t interested he would stop the minute I said I wasn’t interested and vice versa.

DH frequently touches me (gropes/assaults as far as many on MN are concerned) but it just makes me smile and I know he still fancies me after all these years.

I realise everyone is different but asking permission, within a loving relationship, is odd to me.