Page 7 | Degree educated but won't go for managerial jobs

MiaMarshmallows · 2021-02-20T18:05:54+00:00

Anyone else know someone like this? This person is a family member. None of my business I know but I do wonder. She is degree educated, has health issues and made redundant from a job she had been in for years (Well below her skill set but she loved it.) Just feel she is really doing herself a disservice and feels like it's lack of confidence more than anything.

PrivateHall · 21/02/2021 08:26

OP, education is never a waste, regardless of what you do with it. You seem overly invested in this so I would say you are leaving out the context. I really can't get my head around why this bothers you so much. Someone with a degree isn't 'better' than someone without. I climbed the ranks and managed a department with no degree. I see retrained and have a degree as a HCP so am bottom of the rung again really and have never been happier.

The people I previously managed mostly had degrees, I wonder if their families thought as you do

Bourbonic · 21/02/2021 08:28

I think the way you talk about this person is disgusting. Frankly you've no right whatsoever grilling somebody on why they choose to work in the roles they do.

A degree does not qualify anybody to work in a managerial capacity.

sadeyedladyofthelowlands63 · 21/02/2021 08:55

She will be managed by people a lot younger than her with less experience and qualifications.

If they're good managers, what does it matter?

I have a degree and a post-grad qualification. I have never managed anyone and would never want to do so. For the past fifteen years, all my managers have been younger and less experienced than me, but they've all been excellent managers.

BottleFlipper · 21/02/2021 09:19

@MiaMarshmallows

I guess I meant more senior roles as well as management. When you see wasted talent it's just sad. She will be managed by people a lot younger than her with less experience and qualifications. I just wish she could see she is worth more than that.

The age of the manager is irrelevant. As many have tried to explain, the ability of a manager to manage is different to the ability of your relative to do their job.

And again, younger does not mean less qualified and there's nothing in your posts suggesting she's wasting any talent and given the way you describe her role she hasn't wasted anything getting her degree because its required to do her current job!

Embroideredstars · 21/02/2021 09:35

This is what I dislike about extended roles in the NHS. The more you train to be expert in a role the more management roles you're expected to take on but I disagree with this. I want a band 7 role because I want to hone my skills in that particular area of work not to manage people.

So as an example a radiographer can train to be a sonographer because they want that role, its skilled, responsible in terms of reporting findings and a way of developing personally but because it is band 7 the person is also expected to take on additional management responsibility.

They could be a very good sonographer but that doesn't mean they'll be a good manager or want to be one. One additional module on leadership does not a manager make.

As pp said a lot of management tasks eg sick leave, rotas, annual leave can be done by someone without even a qualification in imaging. And those that have those higher qualifications end up deskilled as they dont get enough (or any) clinical time.

Glittertwins · 21/02/2021 09:51

@MiaMarshmallows

I guess I meant more senior roles as well as management. When you see wasted talent it's just sad. She will be managed by people a lot younger than her with less experience and qualifications. I just wish she could see she is worth more than that.

My manager is clueless about the technical aspect of my role but she doesn't need to know it - that's my job. Her job is to manage the resourcing around us and fight our corner which she does do and with a heck of a lot more tact and diplomacy than me.

BertramLacey · 21/02/2021 09:54

When you see wasted talent it's just sad. She will be managed by people a lot younger than her with less experience and qualifications. I just wish she could see she is worth more than that.

I think it's essential, particularly with the current job market, that people see their value in other terms. One of the best things my partner has ever said to me, when I was getting knock back after knock back at work, was that it was no reflection on who I am as a person.

And we all, in a sense, waste talent. If I had more time I could write more. If I'd trained I could be a good singer. If I'd focussed on it earlier I'd have been a better horse rider. If I'd studied earlier I'd have been a good musician. There are many things I could do more of and be better at, and my bet is it's the same for most people. But the key thing is, are you happy doing what you're doing? You get one life and there's no point being miserable, even if you're a CEO earning 200k a year.

Instead of bemoaning the waste of talent, I'd try to boost her self esteem, her sense of her worth as a person. It is dangerous, speaking from experience, to get that entirely from one source, especially if that source is work. Work can so easily go badly wrong through circumstances entirely out of your control, and then you're left with a fragile self worth that becomes completely broken. Encourage her to try things outside of work that are enjoyable and satisfying. Then if her self confidence improves and she wants to stretch herself at work so be it. But in the meantime, if she's happy and paying the bills, stay out of it.

Itreallyistimetochangethings · 21/02/2021 09:59

Op - that sounds like me! I used to manage in my 30/40. Then left after my second child and didn't have the appetite for the stress and target culture. I opted for a job with more flexibility to work around my child care. My salary is awful, but I am in. Job that I really enjoy and is quite rewarding. Also there is little prospect of promotion in my role. I would rather use any capacity I have to do a masters that I hope will help me to do something else that I am interested in. In future!

Embroideredstars · 21/02/2021 10:00

But if she is happy where she is whats the problem? Not everyone CAN go to the top of the profession, even if they want to.

Going back to my own profession as an example, we will always need band 5 radiographers doing the bulk of normal work, there may be a handful of band 7s and one or two 8s. Not everyone will get to be an 8. But there is nothing wrong with staying at band 5 if you're happy and it suits your life, I know my ambitions lessened once I had dc. It's the same in other healthcare professions, even in medicine not every trained doctor will want to go on to be a consultant. And teaching, well always need teachers who just do standard classroom work and no management. I'm sure there are many more examples but my point is they did their degrees, it's an achievement and they work in their roles happily.

When people have fixed opinions like yours op it's usually from a judgy place of insecurity, maybe this makes sense if the person is your dd and there is back story about fees etc but anyone else you really should be minding your own business.

dugupdeadcat · 21/02/2021 10:03

I have several degrees, have done management at senior levels and really can't be arsed with it. I took several years out to raise a family and am now happy muddling along in a civil service job that gives me no managerial responsibility whatsoever.

I really like being able to go home and forget about work until the next day. And I like even more not having the responsibility for other people.

LetMeStraightenMyCrownFirst · 21/02/2021 10:05

If she's happy likely earning less and having less upward mobility prospects in her job, then I'd leave her to it.

MyopiaUtopia · 21/02/2021 10:06

**You know what's bad for self esteem? Someone criticising you for your decisions, saying you should be doing this or that.

I'd try being nicer to your long-suffering young relative. Knowing you disapprove of her career decisions isn't exactly going to be a confidence-building for her**

Completely agree with this. OP maybe your relative simply does not want/need the extra pressure of a managerial position. You mentioned health issues - perhaps she doesn't feel the extra stress would be good for her health?? Maybe you should just mind your own business and stop judging her under a guise of "concern" that she is not reaching her full potential. It's her life, not yours.

WilsonMilson · 21/02/2021 10:11

Work isn’t everything to everyone.

Maybe she doesn’t want the stress. Maybe her home and family life are more important to her.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 21/02/2021 10:14

@MiaMarshmallows

Waste of money doing a degree, waste of talent, waste of opportunity. It's her life, I just think her confidence is holding her back which is a terrible shame.

Why is it a waste? Or in your eyes, do you only do a degree to get into a senior job role?

I really hope this thread isn't about your daughter.

JustAnotherOldMan · 21/02/2021 10:15

Don’t blame her, I’m a low level manger and it’s shit, you get the people who report to you moaning about everything, and the people you report to don’t care as long as the work is done, and the management bullshit is unbelievable

Degrees don’t mean a thing these days, we get grads in and the
Y are clueless, I would take some with experience every time

Chocsmyfav · 21/02/2021 10:18

I have worked with quite a few degree educated individuals and a few have had no common sense whatsoever, they couldn’t even run a bath never mind manage a company.

copernicium · 21/02/2021 10:20

I have a degree and used it for 20 years. I now work in a role where I don't need it, am happier and earn more. I've had people say to my face that I've wasted my education but I don't care as I have a career, a business and I'm so happy.

On the other hand, exh has a degree and has always worked part time in a NMW job, bringing home minimal amounts - firstly because he was happy to be carried by me and have more time to game, now because he has even more time to game now he doesn't have a family.

RampantIvy · 21/02/2021 10:23

Neither my line manager nor my HOD are degree educated, but they are excellent managers. The skills required to be a manager of people are different from excelling academically. Both my bosses are people focussed and have empathy and understanding, yet know when they have to have difficult conversations with their staff.

Bunnybigears · 21/02/2021 10:24

I have a degree and never used it as at 18 I had no idea what I wanted to do for a career so picked something that interested me. I could potentially move in my current company to a more professional/managerial role but I dont want to. I enjoy my current job and I enjoy not having the stress that my colleagues are under.

wobblewombat · 21/02/2021 10:53

Perhaps she's sensible enough to work in a job where she can manage her mental health appropriately. Good mental health trumps any amount of outward material success.

Too many Peter Principle people around as it is...

RampantIvy · 21/02/2021 10:56

Good mental health trumps any amount of outward material success.

Too many Peter Principle people around as it is

I agree. A happy healthy lifestyle cannot be bought.

BernardoTeashop · 21/02/2021 11:29

I have a degree and almost 30 years experience and I’m very good at what I do. People around me
Expect me to want to be a manager but I want to do what I’m good at and not deal with everyone else’s problems. Can’t think of anything worse

wobblewombat · 21/02/2021 15:06

My DM still gets annoyed I was working as a cleaner after finishing a degree. It is still one of my favourite jobs and I've made more money by doing dirty, shitty work than from the stuff out of a book.

But I wouldn't swap, got my DH from my first stint at Uni and a bucketload of confidence from hanging with posh boys from a subsequent degree...

I'd probably go back and study if I could concentrate for more than 10s. None of it was a waste!

SuperbGorgonzola · 21/02/2021 15:13

I think it's incorrect to assume that success is only based on leadership, rather than specialisation.

As a teacher, I'm more motivated by being really excellent at what I do, perhaps helping with training newer collegues and contributing more widely by being involved in making teaching and learning better in our school maybe through research etc.

However, I do not believe that I would make a very good manager. I know myself well enough to know that I would find it mortifyingly uncomfortable to have to confront colleagues and tell them they are not doing the job properly. I'd probably end up avoiding such conversations which would benefit precisely nobody. I might feel differently when i'm older, but perhaps not, and I don't think it would be fair to quantify my success based on how many people I line managed.

AllMyPrettyOnes · 21/02/2021 15:28

@MiaMarshmallows

Waste of money doing a degree, waste of talent, waste of opportunity. It's her life, I just think her confidence is holding her back which is a terrible shame.

Why don't you keep your fucking beak out?

People like you really wind me up. It's not your life. My FIL had a good job - high up, well-paid, and managed a team of people. He absolutely hated it, and came home miserable everyday. He was much, much happier when he got made redundant and found something less stressful.

Why be forced into a position that makes you miserable?