Experiences as a trainee solicitor

[MrsABC123]

Name changed for this post as it might be fairly revealing. Not sure why I am posting this now but I have been mulling over some past experiences and wanted to know whether people think I am overreacting or not. At the time I brushed this stuff off but now I'm not sure. This all happened about 7 - 10 years ago.

For context, I was a trainee at a very well regarded silver circle firm in London. Completed my training contract and was offered a role in the department of my choice where I stayed until 3 years PQ at which point I changed careers completely having become totally disillusioned with the hours I was working (routinely - and I really do mean routinely - leaving after midnight) and no support from partners.

Anyway, the three experiences below definitely added to the stress and anxiety I experienced and I wonder what you make of them:

1. My first supervisor (male, 38, married, 3 kids): would allude to the fact he and his wife no longer had sex, told me that if the end of the world was coming he'd take me into the prayer room and shag me, other things like that. Full disclosure: I definitely had a crush on him but now reframing it, I wonder if it's all a bit gross considering I was only 23...

1. Second supervisor: made it clear he didn't like me from the word go (not sure why, I probably was a bit hopeless), would shout at me or ignore me, told me in my mid-seat review that he couldn't think of one positive thing about me so he had written that I "made a nice cup of tea." I was later told that he had a "problem" with "nice looking young women" by a senior associate who had the same experience with him as a trainee.

1. Post qualification I sat with the 60 year old male head of department from about 2 years PQ who would hide parts of my lunch in his desk drawer that he deemed to be "unhealthy" (stuff like popcorn mainly) and refuse to give it back. He'd also complain that I didn't get in until 9.30am when he was at his desk at 8 (he left at 5 on the dot, I left at 10 earliest).

What does everyone think about this? In retrospect I find it all rather unpleasant and am angry that my experience in law (which I worked bloody hard for and at) was ended by a combination of toxic work environment and unbelievably long hours.

AIBU or not? Anyone else have similar experiences?

Sounds nflf
Normal for law firms
Some of the more extreme stuff has been watered down now but some of the antics I've come across are stuff of legends

To be honest, yes it's normal for law firms. Not all law firms, but many.

I did a traineeship about 15 years ago in a large, old-fashioned but well-regarded firm with high net worth clients. Honestly, it was wild.

Sexual advances constantly, and being expected to be eye candy

Training consisted of photocopying for literally days on end, with the odd court appearance thrust upon you - the absolute shit that no one else wanted. No preparation or instructions and about 5 minutes notice

Driving partners to and from golf clubs, lunches, etc

Collecting dry cleaning, taking shoes to the cobblers, sent on errands to buy all sorts of random stuff and deliver it elsewhere, absolutely not work-related

Working the phones and estate agency when everyone else was too busy/out for lunch

Pouring drinks and serving food at the monthly parties

Being groped, felt up, having to smile and be accommodating to clients etc. I remember someone about 30 years older than me saying he had something for me in his pocket, and I had to reach in to get it. This was in front of a load of partners smiling encouragingly, so I just did it. It was his hotel room key. Yuck. All because I'd made smiley polite small talk with him at a works do.

The girls were groped and the boys were pranked. We were phoning and phoning one guy because he had a court appearance he was missing. He'd been at the office drinks the night before. When he answered the phone he was shoeless in a field about 10 miles out of the city, having been left there pissed by some of the partners.

I made some amazing friends there but it was fucked up. I now work somewhere that values it's trainees and tries very hard to ensure they learn what they need to during their time.

It's not like anywhere else to work for sure. I know some gems but wouldn't dare repeat them on a public forum

Some of this is normal to a greater or lessor degree.

If you're start time was 9 am then you should have been in at 9, if that's what your superiors wanted, even if you had to work late.

@ElderMillennial my start time was 9.30. Obviously I wasn't rocking up half an hour late and then getting arsey when it was pointed out to me.

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I know that it's par for the course and I certainly took it like that at the time but retrospectively it feels...not OK.

I trained and qualified at a magic circle firm and a lot of what you say was routine - bullying and harassment. I went and worked at another one a few years back and the sexual harassment had definitely got a bit better, but the bullying was still there. Loads of awesome people at both firms too, but some utter twats. And no meaningful HR.

Yeah....normal for law firms. A lot of them are really toxic unpleasant environments.

Our managing partner made a speech to the new trainees in which he basically said the firm’s lawyers were all working under enormous stress, and that we shouldn’t take it personally if sometimes they took their stress out on the nearest trainer. Putting up with bullying was seen as being “resilient”. Strange place.

Yes, it’s awful. No nothing has changed in law firms. Sorry.

Our managing partner made a speech to the new trainees in which he basically said the firm’s lawyers were all working under enormous stress, and that we shouldn’t take it personally if sometimes they took their stress out on the nearest trainer. Putting up with bullying was seen as being “resilient”. Strange place.

Ah yes. We have that talk to our PAs. Apparently they should put up with being treated like shit because you don’t know how stressed out a lawyer might be or what they might be dealing with. Apparently that’s a one way street though.

Yeah, any trainee or PA who snapped at a lawyer wouldn’t last long, but lawyers at certain firms can get away with anything so long as they are billing a lot.

I used to work as partners assistant in a small suburban firm. The partner was ok to me but he gave his PAs hell. He'd shout and scream, throw files around and throw papers at them.

I have had files thrown at me many a time

Unfortunately it sounds normal especially in the City. Doesn’t make it right though.

Totally normal in my experience. Having worked in magic circle/silver circle firms for years I have so many stories most people would find shocking. When I have told a few stories to friends who work outside law they think I am stretching the truth and making it up. It becomes a very bonding experience with colleagues and I remain close to a lot of them.

Bloody hell!

I'm 3 PQE in the regional office of a firm with London head quarters and it is genuinely nothing like this. I had one duff supervisor as a trainee but he was only duff because he wasn't really interested in my work or in supervising, and was clearly only doing the supervision role to tick the box so he could progress up to the next job title.

In the seat I qualified into I had a lovely female supervisor, who got made up to partner while doing 4 days a week due to childcare commitments. She was really supportive of my work and my professional development, and is still my supervising partner and informally a kind of mentor to me, especially now I've gone part time too so I can look after preschool DC.

We do have firm parties and nights out (well, did pre-Covid) where everyone lets their hair down, and I'm sure not we're not all angels, but if anything of the kind you describe happened I'm pretty sure HR would get involved sharpish at my place.

So I guess I'm saying "not all law firms", or at least, it doesn't have to be that way. Sorry you had such a horrible couple of years.

I am not surprised at all by your experiences. Within a spectrum of possible experiences as a trainee in that environment, they seem within the norm as I have observed and from what I know of it.

However, it doesn’t make it right.

@89redballoons i had one lovely female supervisor who eventually sued the firm for sex discrimination when they failed to make her up to partner because she was pregnant with number 2. She settled for a lot of money.

Thanks for your message, I feel jealous of you!

I qualified at a Magic Circle firm and I once had someone smack my bottom, which I immediately commented on and there was no repeat. My DH did remind me recently as well that I had once said that I felt like someone looked me up and down and I didn't like it, but I don't remember any inappropriate behaviour other than that.

I was also relatively fortunate with my working hours, never worked weekends or an all-nighter.

As for nowadays, I have no reason to think the situation has got worse.

The thing I found really annoying was all the braying and privilege. Rich kids going into well paid jobs - I'd have liked to have seen a bit more sharing out of wealth but money goes to money.

I was employed by a major firm in a smaller city in the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s.
Alcoholism was rife. Friday afternoons, the place was like the Marie Celeste as they would all be down the local pub. In my first review, I was asked if I was planning to have a family and my boss (the only female partner in the firm) was not allowed to tell her clients that she was pregnant ...

Positives - I have never been so thin.

Yeah, normal. That’s law esp in big firms. Tbh your experience doesn’t sound that bad to me.

I mean what happened was wrong but for law firm standards it’s pretty normal

It's awful and shouldn't be acceptable. That being said, I think anyone who applies to a firm which has a poor reputation for its culture (it's usually those who pay more) is gambling that their working environment may not be pleasant. I applied to less prestigious firms where the pay wasn't so great but where I felt safer on reputation and atmosphere. That's just what I prioritised but it isn't the same for everyone. There are a number of firms I wouldn't even have gone near.

Top firms have a lot of dinosaurs with horrible attitudes. Hopefully as they retire this can be changed, but...

I'm sorry you had to suffer though. There are good firms out there if you ever feel like dipping a toe back in - I'm a second year trainee and I can honestly say that 90pc of my colleagues are great.

None of that happened to me (trainee in silver circle in the early/mid 2000s). However I did hear some stories. I think it varied by department and I strongly suspect corporate was the worst.

I can relate op!