To think that a new law on maternity leave (for MPs) should be able to refer to women?

[MForstater]

New legislation going through parliament to give ministers maternity leave for the first time. ...

It doesn't talk about "women" just "people who are pregnant"

The explanatory notes say: "The Bill does not refer to biological sex or use gender-specific terms when referring to a Minister’s pregnancy and maternity. This reflects common practice of avoiding gender-specific terms when drafting, further to drafting guidance first introduced in 2007."

.... the gender neutral drafting guidance says nothing of the sort. They say that legislation shouldn't use "he" and "man" when referring to a role that can be done by either sex.

Is it unreasonable for laws to refer to biological sex when it comes to pregnancy??

twitter.com/SexMattersOrg/status/1362744703322648576

Not everyone who is female refers to themself as woman/she/her.
You dont have to agree with them being allowed to exist but it's really no skin off your nose for other people to respect those people.

Non pregnant people should get better leave when their child is born too. Could we complain about the sexism around that instead of complaining about anything that shows any respect to transgender people?

YANBU. I am furious that the word women is being erased.

YABU. What does it matter to you if some legislation refers to pregnant women or pregnant people? How can it possibly be offensive?

@MyLittleOrangutan

Not everyone who is female refers to themself as woman/she/her. You dont have to agree with them being allowed to exist but it's really no skin off your nose for other people to respect those people.

Non pregnant people should get better leave when their child is born too. Could we complain about the sexism around that instead of complaining about anything that shows any respect to transgender people?

I complain about both. You don't have to take turns over what you disagree with.

Why is the all one way? Why is it constantly women who have to respect the choices of others? Why cant trans men and those who do not identify as female or male respect that legislation written to protect women (the sex who are oppressed because of their reproductive ability) needs to continue to include the word women??!!!

Don’t say women, don’t say maternity, don’t say mother and don’t refer to breastfeeding because it will offend.

Yanbu. Only human females give birth, however they identify. Women and transmen if we must, however my own opinion is that they are the same thing because no humans can change their sex.

@NotMeekNotObedient

Madness. Only biological women give birth.

This. This. This.

If you are going to get pregnant and give birth, sorry the 100% pre-requisite is being a woman. An adult human female.

Men don't get pregnant.

Fed up of this fucking madness.

YANBU. It's horseshit.

@ifitpleasesandsparkles

This nonsense has been invented to placate people who don't even exist.

Any transsexual woman, who wants to live as a man and then also gets pregnant, is still a woman.

As a PP has already said, how many of these individuals actually exist? And how is saying "woman" preventing them from receiving maternity rights?

Because they legaly aren't a woman.

So if you make a law that only applies to women it wouldn't apply to them.

@InsideNumberNine

Why is the all one way? Why is it constantly women who have to respect the choices of others? Why cant trans men and those who do not identify as female or male respect that legislation written to protect women (the sex who are oppressed because of their reproductive ability) needs to continue to include the word women??!!!

Because they have the same reproductive ability.

Is it not enough that the 'feminism' board is a hot bed for you know what, do you have to come and pollute the holy grounds of AIBU too? 😒 jog on!

@ruruvision go on? If you actually had conviction... you wouldn't be so shady. Or are you just afraid of debate? Or (heaven forbid) not having the right opinions.

I mean, imagine women debating things that affect them!! In public!!! The horror.

@Mrsmorton not remotely, but nor is it offensive to me that trans men get pregnant, and my life and experience of pregnancy is not diminished by the recognition of their existence.

@AnnLouiseB cool. Can you tell me what characteristics they share?

Legal language in cover all bases SHOCKER.

@Mrsmorton thanks for the tag. I'm happy to engage in discussion. I have attempted this multiple times on the feminism board (with different user names). I genuinely wanted to understand the GC perspective. Each time there was a vicious and patronising pile on. I've concluded that most of the users of that board are ultimately NOT there for discussion or learning.

My post on this thread was half tongue in cheek. I just don't want to see trans-exclusionary ideology take over every board, ok?

@JustAmotherOne

As I’m sure you’re aware Maya, trans men can and do become pregnant and give birth.

Trans men should be covered by maternity law.

Using “pregnant people” in this context means that the law clearly covers pregnant women and pregnant trans men.

What, exactly, are you objecting to about a pregnant trans man, who happens to be a government minister, being included in this legal entitlement for maternity leave?

As I'm sure you're aware, Just Another One, in order to get a GRC you have to agree to living in your "chosen gender".

If your "chosen gender" is male why on earth would you be getting pregnant? Men don't get pregnant.

So a pregnant trans man either doesn't have a GRC and is therefore legally a woman or has lied in order to get his GRC and it should therefore be revoked.

HTH.

@AnnLouiseB

How are women erased by the phrase ‘pregnant people’? Womanhood does not require pregnancy. They aren’t synonymous in any way.

Womanhood does not require pregnancy.

But pregnancy requires womanhood.

Not that hard is it?

Because they legaly(sic) aren't a woman.

If you mean via GRC then one of the conditions for acquiring one is:
• you intend to live in your acquired gender for the rest of your life

A trans man who gets pregnant clearly does not fulfil that condition and it just highlights the complete shitshow this is.

Because trans men also give birth. It's pretty simple.