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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not tell the DWP???

129 replies

BoomBaBoom · 19/02/2021 12:48

I'm on ESA, the new style contributions based ESA. In the work relatively activity group. I'm allowed to do permitted work of 16 hours a week and £140 a week maximum.

I'll only recieve the ESA until October and then it'll stop.

I have a job. In normal times it's 7.5 hours a week £65.40 so within the permitted work. But I'm on reduce hours at the moment because of Covid and Furloughed for the rest of the hours. I'm only actually working about three hours a week at the mo!

I've applied for another job which is ten hours a week and would be £87.20. If I get this job, I'll be doing 17.5 hours a week and I'll be over the £140 a week limit by £12.60. I don't really want to lose my ESA for the sake of £12.60 and 1 and half hours extra!

I'm half tempted to just not tell them if I get the job. But I'd feel awful. Would they find out? Would I have to pay the money back?

WIBU to not tell them?

OP posts:
Inpersuitofhappiness · 19/02/2021 12:52

I think they'll find out through the paperwork that's then put through to HMRC.
I think its worth speaking to your new boss, is there any way they can drop 1hr from the contract?
Can you even possibly work the additional hour unpaid?

There must be a way around it. Could they reduce your wage or are you being paid NMW?

IfWishesWereKisses · 19/02/2021 12:54

They have access to real time information from HMRC now so yes...they will find out, you’ll have to pay it back and you may be prosecuted.

Mintjulia · 19/02/2021 12:54

Op, can you ask for the excess £ to be paid into a pension and therefore not income and tax free? Would that solve the problem?

Original poster
BoomBaBoom · 19/02/2021 12:55

It's NMW.

And actually my current job now pays me less per month than the ESA. So if I have to lose one, I'll have to quit my current job to do the new job if there's no way around it.

OP posts:
Twistered · 19/02/2021 12:55

They'll find out almost straight away through HMRC.

See if you can either drop hours so you can get your ESA or if it's an option see if you can increase your hours so you don't need ESA

Original poster
BoomBaBoom · 19/02/2021 12:59

Ah. Thought it would be something like that. Can't see a way round it then. Both jobs are NMW and actually if I get the new job, I'd be better off quitting my current job as it actually pays me less than ESA, so if I have to lose one then it'll be my current job. Although, I'll only get ESA until October so perhaps it's better to lose that and keep both jobs? No option of increasing hours with either job.

OP posts:
LakieLady · 19/02/2021 13:00

@Mintjulia

Op, can you ask for the excess £ to be paid into a pension and therefore not income and tax free? Would that solve the problem?
No, because the threshold is hours or gross earnings, not net earnings.

They will find out through RTI, OP, as a PP said. I've known them issue overpayment notices when someone has only gone over a tiny bit, eg by doing a bit of overtime now and again.

It's really not worth it. And yes, they will ask you to pay it all back.

Bells3032 · 19/02/2021 13:05

My understanding is you lose it gradually not just straight up cut (I think reduced by 10p for every £ you are earning over the limit). Not an expert for the record but there are some good calculators here:

www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

And yes tell DWP unless you want to be done for Fraud

Osirus · 19/02/2021 13:06

They’ll find out. I work in probate and they will know (not saying you’re going to die! Just that they will find out).

MissMarpleDarling · 19/02/2021 13:14

Yes they do find out and you will have to pay it back and they will say you committed benefit fraud.

VettiyaIruken · 19/02/2021 13:25

Don't commit benefit fraud. It's not worth it.
And yes, they will find out, you will have to pay it back and a criminal record won't bring anything positive to your life.

Put your op another way. Is it worth getting done for fraud for the sake of £12.50 a week?

NCforsafety · 19/02/2021 13:37

Yes this country really needs some more people committing benefit fraud. Go ahead. At least in jail you won't have to pay rent or food costs.

Okokokbear · 19/02/2021 13:40

God trying to work while on benefits is a nightmare. I understand yiure not trying to commit fraud it's just a huge faff. But I think the chances are high they will find out so just be honest. I just hope it doesn't mean there's a gap in benefits for you. Do you have any kind of financial cushion?

sneakysnoopysniper · 19/02/2021 13:40

Sometimes you can work things out by taking an employer into your confidence and explaining your difficulty. This happened to a relative who took a part time job. If he had taken the salary and hours offered he would have passed the NI threshold and gone away with a lot less money. By dropping his hours slightly he was able to avoid NI and have more money in his pocket. The system is crazy but you have to manipulate it.

Teapotsandtablecloths · 19/02/2021 13:41

YWBVU to not tell them. It's benefit fraud.

DynamoKev · 19/02/2021 13:47

As others have said - all employers have to send data to HMRC who will automatically send it to DWP, so they will 100% know.

Suzi888 · 19/02/2021 13:47

Yes they have access to a shared system with HMRC.
Why are you claiming ESA if you can work... isn’t it easier just do stop the claim and do the new job? Or is it because of the hours?
Yes it is a huge faff, but they will find out and you’ll have to pay it back. I agree working on benefits is a nightmare, I’ve assessed benefits in the past and it can be difficult for so many people.

Brunt0n · 19/02/2021 13:49

🙄 yes they will find out
Continuing to claim a benefit you’re not entitled to is fraud

SleepingStandingUp · 19/02/2021 13:51

I'd ask furloughed job if they would consider full furlough if you think that's an option but I think if you have to drop one then it needs to be the ESA from a long term perspective and then pick up any overtime / keep looking for a full time / a third job.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/02/2021 13:56

Call the Job Centre Plus and let them talk you through it!

0800 169 0310

judgingcat · 19/02/2021 14:34

Of course YABU it's fraud. 🤦🏻‍♀️
They will find out regardless.

Original poster
BoomBaBoom · 19/02/2021 14:35

Yes, I can work but I'm claiming ESA because I'm limited in the work and hours I'm able to do due to mental illness. And as the ESA is only contributions based, I'll only recieve it until October and then I'm on my own. It is the only benefit I recieve and have ever recieved.

OP posts:
reginaphalangeeee · 19/02/2021 14:37

Of course YABU. What makes you think the rules don’t apply to you?

Moondust001 · 19/02/2021 14:40

The rules are that you must inform the DWP of any changes. Full stop. No exceptions. And you would like us to advise you to commit benefit fraud?