To not tell the DWP???

[BoomBaBoom]

I'm on ESA, the new style contributions based ESA. In the work relatively activity group. I'm allowed to do permitted work of 16 hours a week and £140 a week maximum.

I'll only recieve the ESA until October and then it'll stop.

I have a job. In normal times it's 7.5 hours a week £65.40 so within the permitted work. But I'm on reduce hours at the moment because of Covid and Furloughed for the rest of the hours. I'm only actually working about three hours a week at the mo!

I've applied for another job which is ten hours a week and would be £87.20. If I get this job, I'll be doing 17.5 hours a week and I'll be over the £140 a week limit by £12.60. I don't really want to lose my ESA for the sake of £12.60 and 1 and half hours extra!

I'm half tempted to just not tell them if I get the job. But I'd feel awful. Would they find out? Would I have to pay the money back?

WIBU to not tell them?

The maximum income she could get from permitted work us £560. Plus she will then still keep her esa allowance in full too. Total maximum income that 4 weekly period would be £857 ish.

So I read it correctly. You added maximum potential earnings to ESA to try to show OP was better off?

Only OP isn't earning £560.

If your on contributions based ESA it means you have savings over £16000, or partner earnings over a certain amount.
Income based means you have less than £16000 and you have a partner that doesn't earn enough.
You need to report every thing to DWP because they will find out and you will be in deeper shit.
You can apply for PIP now as they are doing no face to face assessments and it will be less stressful.

@extentioncord

The maximum income she could get from permitted work us £560. Plus she will then still keep her esa allowance in full too. Total maximum income that 4 weekly period would be £857 ish.

So I read it correctly. You added maximum potential earnings to ESA to try to show OP was better off?

Only OP isn't earning £560.

Yes I'm confused by this too

I don't understand all the confusion. If Op earns more than £560 in four weeks [£140 a week] then she would lose her entitlement to her ESA.

IF she took on both jobs she would be earning more than that. It's all very clear in her very first post .

If your on contributions based ESA it means you have savings over £16000, or partner earnings over a certain amount.

No. It does not. It can mean those things, but to qualify for contribution based you simply need to have paid enough NI in a certain period.

@butterpuffed no I don’t understand the confusion either!

People don’t seem to understand that she can earn up to her permitted work allowance and keep her full ESA entitlement. Anything over earning her permitted work allowance means she loses all of her ESA. It’s not reduced £ for £ over the allowance.

People don’t seem to understand that she can earn up to her permitted work allowance and keep her full ESA entitlement.

I fully understand that.

What I don't understand was you adding the allowance to the ESA to show OP would be better off. The allowance is not the figure OP actually earns. To compare jobs v ESA you need to calculate the actual figures, not the maximum allowance.

She won’t be better off taking the extra job. Not at all.

Are you saying she will be? How would you explain it then?

@CornishTiger

She won’t be better off taking the extra job. Not at all.

Are you saying she will be? How would you explain it then?

The wage from the second job is more then OP gets for ESA.

Yet she loses the protection of ESA. She could work slightly less hours and get full permitted work allowance and her ESA.

You have to tell them. They will find out eventually.

Job 1 and ESA gives me £550 roughly.
Job 2 and ESA will give me £675 roughly plus there is also a retainer fee on top of the hourly wage for Job 2 so it would actually be a bit more than this.
Job 1 and 2 would give me 634 roughly.

So, out of all the options, Job 2 and ESA would give me the most amount of money, plus I would retain the security of ESA if my health declined again.

And this is what is wrong with our benefits system. Op is considering handing in her notice on job one because she will only be £12 better off. Not because she can't do job one but because she doesn't think it's worth her time.

@solicitoring

And this is what is wrong with our benefits system. Op is considering handing in her notice on job one because she will only be £12 better off. Not because she can't do job one but because she doesn't think it's worth her time.

I'm considering handing in my notice on my job because I'm miserable there. My colleagues are not very nice and the new job I've applied for is slightly more hours and over £100 more money per month.

OP why does ESA automatically finish after 1 year? What if you are still unwell?

@Zerrin13

OP why does ESA automatically finish after 1 year? What if you are still unwell?

I think because it's contributions based. So, the entitlement is only a year and if you still need to claim after a year you can move to income based ESA but I won't qualify for that because my DH earns too much.

For example, I tried to claim 15 hours childcare for my DS because I thought it would be beneficial for both of us with my mental illness but it was rejected because I'm on contributions based and not income based.

Thankyou OP

OP your plan sounds good. Job 1 sounds detrimental to your health and not very secure anyway. Fingers crossed for job 2.

I would though urge you to reconsider PIP. There are people out there who can help you. It feels like you are probably missing out on money that you as a family desperately need because you are frightened of the impact of the application process? I do understand where you are coming from, but if there is any way you can frame it in your mind to not take it personally and try and stay detached from it a bit, then it really is worth a try. If you google, there should be local groups who can help you to navigate it.

Good luck with everything

@Zerrin13

OP why does ESA automatically finish after 1 year? What if you are still unwell?

As far as benefits agencies are concerned, it's tough shit for the claimant.

The potential fallout from not declaring the additional money isn't worth it.

However, by taking the additional employment and ending the ESA claim, the OP would then be able to accrue further National Insurance contributions so that, if she became unwell again in a couple of years or lost her job (assuming that benefits are still payable in the same way, which in all honesty, is fairly unlikely), she could become eligible to claim contributions-based benefits again.

In addition, the contributions would also mean she had another couple of years going towards State Pension (assuming that will still be around in 30-odd years - again, unlikely, but it's better to contribute and find out then than the alternative).

In the short term, it's a bit shit for the OP that the extra couple of hours means no help at all - but when money is so tight and nothing in life is guaranteed, least of all benefits provision, it's going to be better not to be dependent upon something that can be taken away at a moment's notice.

I hope you get the second job, OP.

@BoomBaBoom

Job 1 and ESA gives me £550 roughly. Job 2 and ESA will give me £675 roughly plus there is also a retainer fee on top of the hourly wage for Job 2 so it would actually be a bit more than this. Job 1 and 2 would give me 634 roughly.

So, out of all the options, Job 2 and ESA would give me the most amount of money, plus I would retain the security of ESA if my health declined again.

If your ESA is stopping in 8 months then you will be £297.40 worse off in October and then your income would just be job 2 (£377ish?).

Whereas if you stop the ESA and take both jobs, your income will stay at £634 indefinitely. So claiming ESA and job 2 would make you £40pm better off but only for a few months before it drops significantly, I think it would be more secure to take both jobs.

Unless there is scope to increase your hours with job 2 once the ESA stops on October, would that be possible?

Ah sorry just read the part about keeping the security of ESA incase your health declines which is obviously important.

Yes, this is something I've thought about. Not really sure what to so, don't want to lose the security of the ESA in case my health declines again but also, come October I'll he worse off.

This is one of the problems with benefits, once a claimant feels like the money is 'theirs' and indispensable, they don't feel inclined to give it up for money they have to work for. This almost inevitably leads to thinking up ways to 'hide' the income...then once on that slippery slope, you find yourself trapped in the underclass system, all tangled up with snooping powers of DWP & HMRC. I'd rather jump off a bridge than have to claim again.

Exactly, and it as was said, it is not because you can't do the job. It is because you would rather take the free money over the hassle of working with people that make you unhappy. I'm not blaming you, but the person who commented is right.