To never have another smear test again.

[Whiskyinajar]

Today I went for my first smear test in a decade ....I've never found them easy and today was no exception. In fact today the smear test couldn't be done as I was in so much pain and it was so uncomfortable that the nurse could not even open the speculum. She did say that she could just about visualise my cervix and the visually it looked healthy.

I'm 55 and I've been through several smear tests, I've never found them easy. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and I have vaginismus hence all smear tests being horrific..

I left the health centre today feeling a failure which I know isn't a logical feeling, I know I am not a failure and that the issue is psychosexual.

However in terms of risk factors I am low risk. I've only ever had two sexual partners and I am a non smoker and always have been.

I'm going to write to my GP and tell her I am opting out of further smear tests.

The nurse today said they would refer me to gynaecology as they may have more success. Tbh I will not allow anyone near me with a speculum ever again unless they sedate me first.

I'm also looking a self testing kits which the NHS don't recommend, however I know in North London there is a current study looking at self testing kits and that these are used successfully in parts of Europe.

Tempted to order one and just share the result with my GP.

Help! Anyone else been in this situation.

My smears were fine until I hit my 50s and vaginal atrophy kicked in. Vaginal atrophy is caused loss of oestrogen - symptoms include thinning of the vulval & vaginal skin, dryness, tightening and shrinking of the entrance, itching and swelling . A PP said it was a minority of women who have it - that’s untrue at least half of women over 50 will have it and because so few women know about it or are embarrassed to consult their GP even if they know what it is, it’s likely to be more like 75% of women. It is treatable but thousands of women struggle with it as GPs handwave it away a just party of ageing or think it’s thrush

I’m dreading my next smear and if there’s a better less painful way, I want that!!

@SylviaGold you say you find it hard to understand how women find this test hard yet there are 5 pages here of women saying just that. Just because it is ok for you doesn’t mean it is for others. For example, that difficult endoscopy you mention, my DH had that, no sedation, all fine. Does this negate your experience? No it does not. Now, imagine again that you found out that the endoscopy was actually unnecessary - there was actually a simpler first stage test and that sample they took was actually just chucked away - imagine you could have avoided that whole distressing experience. That’s how it is for many women with smear tests.

As I mentioned way upthread, there was a consultant came on a previous similar thread and explained this. I’d love to see a more open discussion with medics however the way the NHS works is that once a protocol is set they stick to it for the sake of clear communications with patients and common pathways.

The critical question here is whether for women who are currently testing HPV negative, a smear test offers any advantage over an HPV test when the smear sample is disposed of if it tests HPV negative.

@Whiskyinajar
Hi op
l totally get understand why you feel the way you do about smear tests.

there is therapies that would be beneficial for you such as Hatha Yoga techniques, for Post traumatic disorder syndrome survivors.
Also there is relaxation techniques,and meditation is effective for stress relief and anxiety issues.

Also pelvic floor techniques is good aswell(ask at your Doctors surgery to find out about this.

Also Counselling Therapy specifically aimed at Adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse would help you to op.

www.jostrust.org.uk/about-us/news-and-blog/blog/what-hpv-self-sampling

This is about the HPV self-test trial going on in London, if anyone is interested. The tests are already available, but not on the NHS.

Personally I found them much easier - no speculum, whatever position you like etc.

@MarisPiper92

www.jostrust.org.uk/about-us/news-and-blog/blog/what-hpv-self-sampling

This is about the HPV self-test trial going on in London, if anyone is interested. The tests are already available, but not on the NHS.

Personally I found them much easier - no speculum, whatever position you like etc.

This has got to be the future and uptake should increase.

[quote Zolrets]@SylviaGold you say you find it hard to understand how women find this test hard yet there are 5 pages here of women saying just that. Just because it is ok for you doesn’t mean it is for others. For example, that difficult endoscopy you mention, my DH had that, no sedation, all fine. Does this negate your experience? No it does not. Now, imagine again that you found out that the endoscopy was actually unnecessary - there was actually a simpler first stage test and that sample they took was actually just chucked away - imagine you could have avoided that whole distressing experience. That’s how it is for many women with smear tests.

As I mentioned way upthread, there was a consultant came on a previous similar thread and explained this. I’d love to see a more open discussion with medics however the way the NHS works is that once a protocol is set they stick to it for the sake of clear communications with patients and common pathways.

The critical question here is whether for women who are currently testing HPV negative, a smear test offers any advantage over an HPV test when the smear sample is disposed of if it tests HPV negative.[/quote]
I fully understand what you are saying. Your DH found his endoscopy ok, I thought it was horrific. I found my smear test ok, others found it horrific.

You have made your point and very well put. Yes, if I had discovered I didn't need to go through my endoscopy trauma, I would have been raging.

I have only been viewing this situation from my own eyes. My experience will not be the same as someone else's experience.

For anyone to have to be so frightened of a modern day medical procedure beggars belief. Patients should not have to be so terrified. They also shouldn't have to depend on stuff like diazepam to knock them out just to get through it. It is all wrong, I agree.

Alas, it will be us women who will have to lobby for any change. It doesn't affect men so they don't care.

If there are any petitions regarding this issue, please can you share as I will willingly sign and pass onto my friends.

Be warned they don't let you opt out that easily. I've had my cervix removed and I had to tell them that about five times before they stopped sending me warning letters about the consequences of not going for a smear on the cervix I don't have.

It's not right that the whole female half of the population are coerced and guilt-tripped into allowing the NHS access to their vaginas at regular intervals in order to save 850 lives a year

That's with a screening process in place that does have a high take up, and these 'just in case' procedures people on here have criticised. It's unknown how many would develop cervical cancer without those in place, so not sure of the relevance of the statistic in regards to making an informed decision on whether to have a smear test.

HPV tests aren't as invasive as in the swab isn't inserted as far basically, but for those who have a positive result, it would require 2 in a short space of time (I doubt home tests would be rolled out as the accuracy is always less, but of course if people choose to buy them then fair enough); whereas now it would be the smear in one.

I agree that it's shameful that there aren't better procedures and support in place, the GP here is great. I have a tilted uterus, and they put on my notes to use a different sized swab, so when I go in now they have it ready. They also phone a few days before the app to see if you require any pain relief or if you want to bring anyone as a chaperone (admittedly not sure what the deal is with covid now). Of course that doesn't make it managable for everyone still, but misinformation isn't good either.

@Whiskyinajar

Also Hypnotherapy is beneficial for relief of anxiety issues and for stress relief, relaxation and for clarity of the mind.

(I am not sure if you can have this therapy on the NHS, i think you can but its best for you to ring check at your Doctors surgery.

I know Counselling sessions are free ask,give your Doctors surgery a ring too about this.

Whilst finding out about pelvic floor techniques infor op.

Also meditation is good for people for clarity of mind,stress relief,relaxation.

Its free ,you can do at the comfort at your own home.
Also good meditations sounds music to do this on the internet too.

Take care op xxx

I find them incredibly painful, without any history of abuse, and find people are extremely dismissive. I almost can't have them, they are that bad.

It's your choice. You don't have to inform your gp you will not have another test. It's optional and you can ignore the letters posted to you.

It sounds really traumatic for you to have a cervical screening :( I'm sorry to hear about your past experiences. It is so sad because cervical screening really is so important. Many people think they are low risk because they don't have sex with lots of different partners, but the truth is you can get cervical cancer even if you have only ever had one partner.

And sadly if you did ever get cervical cancer, you would have to go through much more intrusive things and it would be a lot more difficult than a smear - especially if it was detected late because you hadn't gone for the tests. If a smear is hard for you then you really, really don't want to put yourself through that and all the complications of late detection.

I would echo what other posters have said, and urge you not to stop going, but you need to insist that they find a way to do it that doesn't cause you pain and trauma, even if that involves sedating you. You need to be very up front and insistent about how difficult you have found them in the past and that you almost stopped going, and you will only come if they sedate you and give you a very experienced gynecologist.

@AIMummy

Hi OP,

Just to let you know I managed to cure my vaginismus using vagi-wave (www.vagi-wave.co.uk/product-information/) initially then progressing onto dilators (www.vaginismus.com/vaginismus-exercises) teach you how to relax those muscles as well as feeling like you're in control. I had to do this in order to do IVF but it worked for me, so something you may wish to try for the future. Best of luck .

How does this work please? I've had a look at the website; one diagram seems to show it inserted inside you? Even the thought of doing that triggers my vaginismus

@Whiskyinajar

Also op
Having a good supportive female friend or a Partner with you as a chaperone to support you when attending medical prosecute such as smear tests etc.

Could help you feel in more in control too,(not powerless)

And always informing/telling the doctors surgery/women's clinic that you allways prefer/need to have female only doctor to do intimate medical tests/procedures.

I think the real issue is that there is no complexity of communication for fear of women doing nothing at all (no smear AND no HPV test). One size fits all as the system can’t change rapidly.

I think that the smear morality marketing machine has taken on a life of it’s own hence my earlier comment about biting my lip when I see well meaning posts about Jade Goody/whatever crude/‘funny’ slogan is mote de jour. The issue has been simplified for idiots. Women who don’t need/can’t have/don’t want this test are collateral damage.

@Whiskyinajar This is more a post for Women's health of the menopause forums here :)

What you have is vaginal atrophy, caused by loss of estrogen after the menopause.

If you are not having sex at the moment, this makes things worse- the vagina shrinks and loses elasticity. This affects up to 70% of women post-meno, but many don't realise they have it, if they are not sexually active, until something like a smear is needed.

The treatment is simple- there's a couple of products from your GP that restore the vagina - it's topical estrogen cream.

It's harmless, not absorbed by the body and old ladies right into their 90s use it to help prevent bladder issues and soreness, it's not just for women having sexual activity.

Whether you continue with smears or not is your choice, but if you want to, this is the way to make them comfortable.

@Alez

Hi, I've only read your OP but you should speak to your GP about the vaginismus. I had it, and had to do lots of physio to get rid of it but it's all gone now. When you go for a smear you should tell the nurse that you have it and try and get a nice nurse. That made a world of difference for. Though I don't see why you shouldn't do the self test if you want to. You with need one again for a while so the results of that study will probably be out by then.

Hi, did you get the physio referral through your gp? What sort of physio did you have to do? Thanks

Can I just alert all women here to vaginal atrophy?

It's not unusual to find a lot of women don't know about it, but it's so common that it ought to be part of all women's sexual and health education.

Genitourinary syndrome of menopause (GSM) is defined as a collection of symptoms and signs caused by hypoestrogenic changes to the labia majora/minora, clitoris, vestibule/introitus, vagina, urethra, and bladder that occur in menopausal women. The term GSM was introduced by the International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health and the North American Menopause Society in 2014 and replaced the term vaginal atrophy (other terms include vulvovaginal atrophy, urogenital atrophy, or atrophic vaginitis) [1]. The syndrome may include, but is not limited to, genital symptoms of dryness, burning, and irritation; sexual symptoms of lack of lubrication, discomfort or pain, and impaired function; and urinary symptoms of urgency, dysuria, and recurrent urinary tract infections. Women may present with some or all of the signs and symptoms, which must be bothersome and should not be better accounted for by another diagnosis. The spectrum of adverse consequences requires long-term treatment in many women. Treatment options include both hormonal and nonhormonal interventions.

@Whiskyinajar

Oops i sorry typo mistake I ment to say having a good supportive female friend/Partner to attend with you any/all intimate medical procedures such as smear tests etc.

Would help you feel bit more at ease and more in control,not powerless (helpless) feeling.

HoollyWugger you start off with the flexible soft silicone vagi-wave first with lubricant, inserting it slightly and leaving it overnight. Then when you get more confident, you insert it a bit more then so on. Breathing deeply, focusing on positive thoughts and smelling lavender oil really helps. You have to train your brain as well as your muscles. When you have managed to insert the vagi-wave fully then it's time to do the same with the dilators, starting on the smallest size first. Don't pressure yourself and it's not a quick fix, progress can be slow but the more you practice, the easier it gets.

B1rthis there isn't a national screening programme for prostate cancer?
oak most general practices don't possess gas and air, and staff are certainly not trained to administer it.
As a practice nurse I would only add the benefits of a nurse visibly observing your cervix. Self swab tests for HPV wouldn't pick up polyps for example, which are referred for removal due to their potential to become cancerous and are surprisingly common, often with no symptoms.

I had similar and was offered valium. But I went to the women's fertility doctor and she explained its because my cervix is at a different angle to other woman thats why I was finding them so painful. She said to tell furture testers to head to my bum! And putting a cushion under my bum to elevate my cervix helps a lot. But I am sorry just having two sexual partners does not mean you are absence from risk. I developed CIN 3 in my 30s and I had only had a couple of long term partners. I don't have the wart virus either.

Wow wow wow! Thank you all so much for, taking the time to reply. I will read each and every response. Thank you to those of you who have sent links too.

@Whiskyinajar

Wow wow wow! Thank you all so much for, taking the time to reply. I will read each and every response. Thank you to those of you who have sent links too.

It's worth thinking about whether your discomfort is caused by

1 Loss of estrogen- for which there is a simple treatment.

2 Previous psychological issues - the childhood abuse (so sorry to hear of that.)

If you are not sexually active you may not be aware of (1) until something like smears are needed.

@SylviaGold

I am at a complete loss to see why sexually active women feel that a smear test is so invasive. It is a tiny little swab like an earbud, just taking a sample.

If you are sexually active, why can't you cope with a little swab? Surely you must be used to something a lot 'bigger' if you are sexually active?

I fully understand teenage girls, abuse victims, and women who are not sexually active being scared, tensed up, and then feeling pain.

But, fully grown women who have given birth multiple times? Scared? The speculum is tiny compared to a penis. It is minute compared to a baby's head. How can you have sex lots of times, give birth vaginally numerous times, and then be scared of a tiny swab?

I really don't understand how a woman can have sex many times, give birth vaginally several times, and then be scared of something akin to a cotton bud being inserted into her cervix. I really don't get it.

I have had two vaginal births and I attend my smears every three years. It is far less invasive than having a tooth out.

When the nurse says 'going in', I just look the other way and breathe deeply out. All done.

I can't believe the fuss over this. Choose your battles. This isn't one of them. It isn't invasive and it isn't uncomfortable at all as long as you don't look and breathe slowly. You are taking the views of a minority of women as a given. This is not representative. In my opinion, smear tests do not hurt as long as you breathe out. If you breathe in and tense your muscles, it will hurt.

Money should be spent on relaxation techniques not blanket bans on smear tests. I have supported you until now. You just sound like you are bleeting now in the middle of a pandemic and no one will listen or take you seriously.

This is one of your WOMAN t-shirt wearing allies before you ban me. I just think you are barking up the wrong tree with this topic,

It's the speculum that causes pain, not the "tiny little swab'.

It's also often operator error - so that one doctor/nurse causes immense pain and another medical practitioner none.

The move away from autoclaving metal speculums to the disposable plastic speculums has proven painful for some of us. Asking for the smaller size has helped some women.

The OP is 55 - so chances are she is post-menopausal or close to, and that brings a whole other level of pain with speculums for a good number of women, c/- skin changes related to loss of estrogen.

It really is a whole new level of pain, for some who have had smears with no pain prior.

Would suggest seeking help on the menopause board re this, OP.