To never have another smear test again.

[Whiskyinajar]

Today I went for my first smear test in a decade ....I've never found them easy and today was no exception. In fact today the smear test couldn't be done as I was in so much pain and it was so uncomfortable that the nurse could not even open the speculum. She did say that she could just about visualise my cervix and the visually it looked healthy.

I'm 55 and I've been through several smear tests, I've never found them easy. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and I have vaginismus hence all smear tests being horrific..

I left the health centre today feeling a failure which I know isn't a logical feeling, I know I am not a failure and that the issue is psychosexual.

However in terms of risk factors I am low risk. I've only ever had two sexual partners and I am a non smoker and always have been.

I'm going to write to my GP and tell her I am opting out of further smear tests.

The nurse today said they would refer me to gynaecology as they may have more success. Tbh I will not allow anyone near me with a speculum ever again unless they sedate me first.

I'm also looking a self testing kits which the NHS don't recommend, however I know in North London there is a current study looking at self testing kits and that these are used successfully in parts of Europe.

Tempted to order one and just share the result with my GP.

Help! Anyone else been in this situation.

It's also often operator error - so that one doctor/nurse causes immense pain and another medical practitioner none.

Yes I agree with this, I do wonder if the training differs or it's just the case that some people are better for whatever reason, and if there is a way to close the gap.

@JamieFrasersAuntie

I opted out years ago.

Expect letters, phone calls, and appointments to be made for you to discuss why you want to opt out. It appears to be nhs policy.You don't have to respond or explain why.

That’s disgraceful. It’s meant to be optional screening that is done with informed consent. Bullying shouldn’t be part of healthcare. I’ve had some pretty awful GP appointments where I’ve been put under extreme pressure to undertake a smear test. Often when there for a completely unrelated reason.

I’ve opted out of smears and have yet to decide if I’ll get mammograms when I’m the appropriate age.

I opted out of smears several years ago, i think I would have been due one last year but have had no letters (pandemic may have affected that)
I had the most awful time with one, where the nurse put speculum in then couldn't find my backwards facing cervix (despite being told of it by me) then walked out of the room to get someone else (to help? ) and left the door open to the waiting room.

Never again will that be a possibility of happening to me.

Just never. Fucking horrible thing to do to anyone. I was in tears for the rest of the day.

@Spied I was about to post the same thing. Married 8 years, suddenly HPV + at last smear. Luckily no cell changes, but I will be re-screened this year.

I can't comment on the efficacy of the home HPV tests and I feel that having a smear is better than not having one, but I am not the one in OP's position. I really feel for you OP but please do consider HPV testing which I understand is less invasive.

I have the same issues with gettifn a smear. Not abuse or anything but just I can’t relax and clench, took 3 attempts to get my last one done. Could you request a doctor to do it? My gp referred me to practice Gynaecologist and she did it and I didn’t even know.

Thing is in my experience as saying earlier, even if you ask for help they don’t believe you . I’m not sure if it’s a time or money issue or lack of training and experience .

It’s a rare experience when I’ve had someone who has appeared to genuinely care and treated me with dignity and respect .

I ended up getting a huge NHS apology and told they would being making huge changes to how things are handled; particularly in terms of training for very complex cases, but no idea if that’s ever happened . The consultants I spoke with said there’s a big expectation that women will just get on with it as they do in childbirth etc, and the system isn’t well set up for anyone with a difficulty of any sort .

My friend encountered similar needing a smear and also having hip dysplasia; she was told she’d have to go without as the NHS didn’t have the facilities to provide her with one .

The whole system desperately needs overhauling and the staff involved need education .

This has been so interesting, I've learned a lot.
My take aways are that according to that BMJ research screening does reduce the risk of cervical cancer by around 80% in some age groups. The HPV screening sounds really promising and according to the link on the trial only 13% of people will need a smear afterwards - that sounds really promising and hopefully will mean women have better options. I remember when the NHS moved from cell analysis to HPV, it caused dreadful delays in people getting smear results as they scaled back the processing labs, it wasn't ideal at all, was a few years ago. I have had investigation for abnormal cells, resolved itself, I don't recall ever having a HPV result, do they give you that when you get your smear results back?
Can HPV lay dormant? If you're negative for that do you need to be retested?

Hopefully now with HPV vaccines our daughters won't have to worry about cervical cancer at all.

@wonderstuff yes HPV can lay dormant, sometimes for years. If you are negative then you won't be re-tested until your next smear. The stats state that 80% of people will be infected with HPV in their lifetime, although I assume this includes all strains of HPV rather than purely those that cause cervical cancer.

wonderstuff the vaccine doesn't cover for all strains of the HPV virus. I've seen many vaccinated women test HPV positive. And not all cervical cancers are caused by HPV, most but not all.
Any bleeding after sex or between periods should be reported, even if smears are HPV negative and up to date.

@SylviaGold

I am at a complete loss to see why sexually active women feel that a smear test is so invasive. It is a tiny little swab like an earbud, just taking a sample.

If you are sexually active, why can't you cope with a little swab? Surely you must be used to something a lot 'bigger' if you are sexually active?

I fully understand teenage girls, abuse victims, and women who are not sexually active being scared, tensed up, and then feeling pain.

But, fully grown women who have given birth multiple times? Scared? The speculum is tiny compared to a penis. It is minute compared to a baby's head. How can you have sex lots of times, give birth vaginally numerous times, and then be scared of a tiny swab?

I really don't understand how a woman can have sex many times, give birth vaginally several times, and then be scared of something akin to a cotton bud being inserted into her cervix. I really don't get it.

I have had two vaginal births and I attend my smears every three years. It is far less invasive than having a tooth out.

When the nurse says 'going in', I just look the other way and breathe deeply out. All done.

I can't believe the fuss over this. Choose your battles. This isn't one of them. It isn't invasive and it isn't uncomfortable at all as long as you don't look and breathe slowly. You are taking the views of a minority of women as a given. This is not representative. In my opinion, smear tests do not hurt as long as you breathe out. If you breathe in and tense your muscles, it will hurt.

Money should be spent on relaxation techniques not blanket bans on smear tests. I have supported you until now. You just sound like you are bleeting now in the middle of a pandemic and no one will listen or take you seriously.

This is one of your WOMAN t-shirt wearing allies before you ban me. I just think you are barking up the wrong tree with this topic,

This is one of the most willfully ignorant posts I've read on Mumsnet.

sylvia it isn't a swab like an earbud. It isn't a swab at all! It's a plastic brush.
And a medium long speculum (often required as all women are different) isn't tiny.
I've done thousands of smears, and for many non sexually active, postmenopausal, nulliparus women etc they are uncomfortable.
Your ignorance is astounding.

Having to have bits of your cervix removed hurts more but atleast I had the smear test and didn't die 😳 shocked at this post.

If there wasn’t an alternative then I would say fine. Get people to take drugs, go under, do yoga, learn breathing techniques, go to counselling, have a consultant do it. Etc etc

But there is, so why aren’t we being offered it?

I really don’t see the point in comparing a smear test to men’s STI tests or prostate exams, it’s just not relevant.

For me the fact of the matter is that a smear test is now a HPV test in the first instance, this can be done in a far less invasive way which would surely encourage more women to at least come forward for the first element of testing. I struggle to see why if the NHS wants to stick with the new HPV protocol why they wouldn’t want to offer women a more comfortable way of offering this test!

In the same respect, if STI or prostate testing could be done in a less invasive way then it should also be reconsidered in its current format.

@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear

Now that they have switched to HPV testing and only proceeding if HPV positive I will be doing a HPV test in future and only getting a smear if it is positive. I am currently negative and happily married so very likely to remain negative. I believe self HPV testing is the plan for the NHS long term so would just be slightly ahead.

That's what I've decided to do too. Did my first home test last week, just waiting for results now. Told GP my plan was to contact them if HPV test comes back positive and they were happy.

@MissMarpleDarling

Having to have bits of your cervix removed hurts more but atleast I had the smear test and didn't die 😳 shocked at this post.

I’m sure it does hurt far more than a smear test and if smear tests were the only way of identifying women with pre-cancerous or indeed cancerous cells going forward then I would agree that they are essential. However, these women can be identified in a far less invasive way so why shouldn’t women be given the option to screen that way?

Women should be given the choice with informative, balanced information to help them decide what is right for them.

What amazes me on this thread is twofold

1. the amount of women that do not know that they check for hpv first and if none, no further investigations. I didn’t know this. And I’m shocked

1. The amount of women on here aggressively berating other women, reporting the thread to MNHQ to investigate “fake” posts - accusing women of not “manning” up

1. That the NHS is so entrenched, financially and morally in the insistence of this type of screening. Maybe we should think about why that is. And why even within the nhs women’s needs and wants are completely ignored for the greater good. Whatever that is.

@MrsWhites I completely agree. I honestly think most of the information I've learned over the years about my health has been gleaned from TV and social media.
I've got pages of information about a gyne op next week, but almost all of it behavioural, where to go what to wear, when to avoid sex.. nothing about hpv or cancer risks. I think the only time I've had solid statistical risk information from the NHS was when my children were having their MMR jabs.

Women's health is complex and we deserve good information.

I have to go for a smear but I feel sick at the thought of it. I last had one when I was 2 weeks post partum due to unexplained bleeding. They ended up using a paediatric speculum as I was screaming so much in pain. Utterly horrendous. Nobody should be judged for fearing what is essentially invasive and uncomfortable. Sex yes is 'invasive' but the last time I checked, a speculum is either cold metal or plastic and inserted by a stranger who doesn't 'know' your body.

[quote SomewhereUpMyArse]@meggymoo777 no I'm not a doctor and neither are you but you're advocating that traumatised women drug themselves in order to have procedures they find painful and which are statistically unlikely to be of any use to them. I got my info off the NHS website.

Additionally, it is utterly uncontroversial that removing cells which may become cancerous over the course of the next few decades is not emergency surgery. Telling women that this procedure is emergency surgery - with the implication that if they don't have the test that indicates it is advisable and therefore don't have this "emergency surgery" they will die - is irresponsible.[/quote]
I am so pleased to see information like this finally getting through on a mainstream website.

In fairness, I think the NHS website is very good but most people go along with their doctor telling them "you SHOULD have this procedure".

Interesting point about prostate exams, hadn't thought if men got all those letters.

My elderly mother has been told something about cells that "might possibly" turn into cancer without horribly invasive treament. She is early 80s. She was so distressed, we ended up making several calls and ended up getting something like a 2% chance in 7-10 years. The consultant added "but you seem quite healthy so it's likely you will live that long".

I don't mind the information. It's the way it is presented that is a problem.

@Cornetttttto

I have to go for a smear but I feel sick at the thought of it. I last had one when I was 2 weeks post partum due to unexplained bleeding. They ended up using a paediatric speculum as I was screaming so much in pain. Utterly horrendous. Nobody should be judged for fearing what is essentially invasive and uncomfortable. Sex yes is 'invasive' but the last time I checked, a speculum is either cold metal or plastic and inserted by a stranger who doesn't 'know' your body.

Oh you poor thing

I am wondering now what counts as "unexplained bleeding" so soon after giving though. I have been subject to investigations due to "unexplained" things that were completely explicable and logical and it's taught me to avoid the doctor when possible.

I was post C Section and not all of the birth products were removed so got an infection.

@Cornetttttto

I was post C Section and not all of the birth products were removed so got an infection.

That makes sense, but I'm not sure why they wanted you to have a smear?

My Body Back Project have clinics in Glasgow and London for women who've experienced sexual violence and want to have a smear test or STI test. They can send the results to your GP so they will know you've had a smear. You can read more about the clinics here - www.mybodybackproject.com/services-for-women/mbb-clinics/

@MrsWhites probably because everyone that tests positive would then need to be recalled for a smear. The NHS is unlikely to have the time and resources to do this, unless they move to a different model of HPV testing, maybe home tests? Although not all cervical cancer is caused by HPV so I feel there is a flaw in only testing for HPV (unless someone more qualified can tell me I've got that wrong?)