To never have another smear test again.

[Whiskyinajar]

Today I went for my first smear test in a decade ....I've never found them easy and today was no exception. In fact today the smear test couldn't be done as I was in so much pain and it was so uncomfortable that the nurse could not even open the speculum. She did say that she could just about visualise my cervix and the visually it looked healthy.

I'm 55 and I've been through several smear tests, I've never found them easy. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and I have vaginismus hence all smear tests being horrific..

I left the health centre today feeling a failure which I know isn't a logical feeling, I know I am not a failure and that the issue is psychosexual.

However in terms of risk factors I am low risk. I've only ever had two sexual partners and I am a non smoker and always have been.

I'm going to write to my GP and tell her I am opting out of further smear tests.

The nurse today said they would refer me to gynaecology as they may have more success. Tbh I will not allow anyone near me with a speculum ever again unless they sedate me first.

I'm also looking a self testing kits which the NHS don't recommend, however I know in North London there is a current study looking at self testing kits and that these are used successfully in parts of Europe.

Tempted to order one and just share the result with my GP.

Help! Anyone else been in this situation.

The doctors used to me hold me down as a child . Which is exactly what happened to me when I was sexually assaulted .

When I explained an examination I had to my lovely GP in my twenties, she was in tears and said in any other setting, they’d call it an assault, except they can’t, because you’ve apparently consented .

After a while you develop this weird sort of ‘blanking out’ where you disassociate entirely from what’s happening to you and forget .

Then you go home and they mention smear test or something on TV and you remember and you’re back in that room and it’s too much to bear .

I’ve nursed adults through brain surgeries and terminal illnesses . I would never, ever , suggest that they force themselves through anything and would always be their advocate, try to adapt procedures to suit them and their needs and ability to cope . I would never suggest that they’re lying, or laugh at them, or belittle them, or remark on their weird brain or call them strange - but that’s all happened to me and there’s a weird suggestion that it might actually be for my own benefit. I’m not sure what benefit that is exactly !

@wouldyoubookyet bless you for having had to go through so much at such a young age. That must be very hard. I also find it difficult to due to previous gyne surgeries and procedures some of which looking back bordered on negligent but I guess at least I'm older - though that brings its own problems! It's really difficult isn't it.

I also agree that the kind of stuff they do to us without proper pain management is just horrendous. It doesn't happen in other countries or indeed as you say in other disciplines. I've certainly never had a filling in my tooth without pain relief. I'm going to investigate this HPV test. I'm due a smear and tbh having spent the last few years having multiple really horrible things done to me if I can avoid anything else along those lines I'll pay fifty quid for it. Even though I've already paid for healthcare via tax lol. Wishing you all the best. Gynae procedures are awful.

[quote SomewhereUpMyArse]@wouldyoubookyet bless you for having had to go through so much at such a young age. That must be very hard. I also find it difficult to due to previous gyne surgeries and procedures some of which looking back bordered on negligent but I guess at least I'm older - though that brings its own problems! It's really difficult isn't it.

I also agree that the kind of stuff they do to us without proper pain management is just horrendous. It doesn't happen in other countries or indeed as you say in other disciplines. I've certainly never had a filling in my tooth without pain relief. I'm going to investigate this HPV test. I'm due a smear and tbh having spent the last few years having multiple really horrible things done to me if I can avoid anything else along those lines I'll pay fifty quid for it. Even though I've already paid for healthcare via tax lol. Wishing you all the best. Gynae procedures are awful.[/quote]
I think a lot of NHS procedures are done without pain relief unless you ask.

I was having stomach problems and so my GP ordered an tube down the throat with a camera into my stomach. I cannot remember the name of it...endoscopy?

Well, I had it done in a portacabin in a car park outside Mecca Bingo. It was horrific. I imagined the pipe they would put down my throat would be thin and clear. Oh no. It was black and the width of a hose pipe. It was fucking horrific and I gagged the whole way through. They also took a scrape of my stomach lining whilst in there and I felt it ripping. I can't tell you how awful it was.

Many months later, I found out that I could've requested sedation but I was never offered it (too expensive and time consuming you see). I was furious and so upset.

Anyway, my friend had to undergo the same procedure and was given the option of sedation or not. She asked my advice. I said....sedation!!!! Every time.! Do not do through that wide awake. It was the worst thing I have ever been through despite having two children and one via a ventouse.

Motto of my tale...always ask if sedation is an option because they may not necessarily tell you it is unless you ask.

That does not mean the whole screening programme should be scrapped and changed.

But the whole screening programme has now in fact been changed no? Isn’t your sample only looked at if you’re HPV positive?

But the whole screening programme has now in fact been changed no? Isn’t your sample only looked at if you’re HPV positive?

Yes. So how do they justify such an invasive test when it's pointless in the vast majority of cases? Although clearly the women saying it was agony are just lying for fun, it's only like a cotton bud don't ya know

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48092561

I think smears as screening will eventually be scrapped but the speed of these changes is always glacial.

@Oysterbabe

But the whole screening programme has now in fact been changed no? Isn’t your sample only looked at if you’re HPV positive?

Yes. So how do they justify such an invasive test when it's pointless in the vast majority of cases? Although clearly the women saying it was agony are just lying for fun, it's only like a cotton bud don't ya know

Oh come on, don't do that. You are just trying to shut me down and end any debate. Why do you do that? Don't you want to hear an alternative voice? I guess not and this is why you are in such an echo chamber. I'll stop posting after this as I will get nowhere on here. Sigh.

To MANY women, a cotton swab, is just that. Men get a cotton swab plunged down their bellend for tests. Shall we scrap them because a few men don't like it?

There will be always be a minority who find it incredibly difficult for a whole host of reasons and, as I said, measures must be put in place to accommodate them.

But, the whole system does not need changing right now as the NHS have bigger things to deal with. The system works for the majority and is hailed as a success. If the minority can ask for special provisions and have them granted, what is the problem?

Back in the days when GPs did smear tests - or when mine did, back in the 80s/90s) he used the sideways position (now I gather called the left lateral position) as I have a high cervix and tilted uterus. So that’s not new. I was surprised when subsequently nurses wanted me to lie on my back and told them they’d not find my cervix that way, and they were surprised at me saying that. Then they persisted with the back position, had difficulties and hurt me. It was very annoying.

@Oysterbabe

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48092561

I think smears as screening will eventually be scrapped but the speed of these changes is always glacial.

I think it’s striking that changes are somewhat swifter when it’s not specifically related to women’s health.

800 deaths from cervical cancer a year, with a smear test uptake of around 80%. Huge public discourse, widespread national awareness campaigns ‘use your head and spread’’, and so on.

16,000 deaths from bowel cancer a year. Target screening uptake is 60% (but ranges from 30% to 50% in some parts of the UK). No public discourse on anywhere near the same level.

To continue increasing uptake of smears, the main narrative has been to do a better job of identifying GP practices with low rates, sending out reminder letters with a red background, etc..

For bowel cancer screening, actual, palpable changes were rolled out in 2019:

A new test kit called the faecal immunochemical test (FIT) was introduced in England in June 2019. This kit is now sent with all invitations for bowel cancer screening.

Only if blood is detected, are you now invited for a colonoscopy.

Will the same process eventually be rolled out for HPV testing? Probably, but as pointed out it’ll be at a glacial rate.

@borntobequiet

Back in the days when GPs did smear tests - or when mine did, back in the 80s/90s) he used the sideways position (now I gather called the left lateral position) as I have a high cervix and tilted uterus. So that’s not new. I was surprised when subsequently nurses wanted me to lie on my back and told them they’d not find my cervix that way, and they were surprised at me saying that. Then they persisted with the back position, had difficulties and hurt me. It was very annoying.

Now THAT must've been VERY annoying!

Who knows your body best? You! Every single time.

I had to tell a nurse how best to take my blood last month. She was really struggling to get any despite about five tries. I am hypothyroid so have to have regular tests to get my medication dose right.

I told her that other nurses jabbed my vein and then sort of lifted the needle up. She was like, really? I said, yes really. So she stuck the needle into my vein, then I told her to hook it up slightly...guess what...my blood flowed into those tubes with abandon!

So, you see, we know our bodies best. Something that medics seem not to take into account. Very, very, bloody annoying.

@SylviaGold

If men could provide a urine sample with precisely the same diagnostic pathway as having ‘a cotton swab plunged down their bellend’, how many would persist with the latter?

@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear I had the HPV test a couple weeks ago. It's actually no different to a full smear, just as uncomfortable.

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear I had the HPV test a couple weeks ago. It's actually no different to a full smear, just as uncomfortable. [/quote]
Oh dear. How so?

The smear system is medieval and they only get away with it because it's women and no one cares.

[quote Circumlocutious]@SylviaGold

If men could provide a urine sample with precisely the same diagnostic pathway as having ‘a cotton swab plunged down their bellend’, how many would persist with the latter?[/quote]
Well, nobody. But that is a moot point. Those tests have been in existence for ages. If men want to change things, they can campaign for change like we do!

But they won't have to campaign for change, will they?

A handful of doctors will have to endure these invasive tests and they will be shocked. They will then make changes from within so the poor menz don't have to have a cotton bud shoved down their precious bell ends no more. Us women? Left to fight it out all on our own, again...sigh.

Hi OP,

Just to let you know I managed to cure my vaginismus using vagi-wave (www.vagi-wave.co.uk/product-information/) initially then progressing onto dilators (www.vaginismus.com/vaginismus-exercises) teach you how to relax those muscles as well as feeling like you're in control. I had to do this in order to do IVF but it worked for me, so something you may wish to try for the future. Best of luck .

@SwannieDownThe

The smear system is medieval and they only get away with it because it's women and no one cares.

Quite.

Considering the vast advances in technology, medicine and engineering that we’ve seen over the past hundred years, it seems incongruous that the continued use of an instrument designed in the 1840s by a man who had no interest in his female patients’ comfort is still being routinely used to protect them from cancer.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/speculum-use-smear-tests-pain-women-cervical-screening-sexism-men-a8834771.html

@SwannieDownThe

The smear system is medieval and they only get away with it because it's women and no one cares.

I agree. And it will only be changed if us poor women fight for it to be changed.

Why do women have to fight for every little change?

And by fighting, the menz think we are all a bunch of 'lesbians' for daring to talk about the rights of women.

It is frustrating beyond belief. Everything a women's group does, ends up with pathetic remarks like, "Don't listen to them fucking lesbians. Out to get us Menz they are!"

Really?

Seriously, if someone is prepared to make a petition of some sort to lobby our MPs about women having more freedom over their health choices, I will certainly sign and pass to my other contacts who I know will support it. Men and women 🤼‍♀️

@SnackSizeRaisin

I imagine the treatment for cervical cancer would be FAR more invasive and stressful for you

That's not a helpful comment, is it. The smears don't actually prevent cancer you know. Also, false positive smears lead to unnecessary investigations which is an acknowledged downside of the screening programme.

OP - the screening programme is every 5 years at your age and stops at 64. So if you were to have this one, you would only be called for one more. Or a urine test for HPV could be another option to discuss with the GP (may have to do privately).

They can prevent cancer! Of course they can! They indicate the pre cancerous cells, these can be removed before they develop in to cancer!

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear I had the HPV test a couple weeks ago. It's actually no different to a full smear, just as uncomfortable. [/quote]
Well it is different as you can do it in the privacy of your own bathroom. I have never had one but surely a vaginal swab is less painful than a speculum and a bit of your cervix being taken?!

Like the OP I haven't had a smear test for a number of years. The test is mediaeval as a first line of defence against cancer. Other tests, such as for bowel or prostate cancer, only get invasive once other signs are present. I am very low risk and until something less like sexual assault is offered I shan't be having another smear test.

Hi, I've only read your OP but you should speak to your GP about the vaginismus. I had it, and had to do lots of physio to get rid of it but it's all gone now. When you go for a smear you should tell the nurse that you have it and try and get a nice nurse. That made a world of difference for. Though I don't see why you shouldn't do the self test if you want to. You with need one again for a while so the results of that study will probably be out by then.

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear I had the HPV test a couple weeks ago. It's actually no different to a full smear, just as uncomfortable. [/quote]
Are you sure that you didn't just have a normal smear where they test for HPV first? That isn't what people are talking about when they talk about alternative HPV only tests.

For those upthread saying a smear is 'non-invasive', I'd love to hear their definition of invasive. A Challenger 2 up their twat, perhaps?

Anyone minded to opt out of s screening programme which is bad medicine and deeply misogynistic should have the courage of their convictions and do so: the personal risk of illness or death is very small, so long as any actual symptoms are investigated (which of course they will be, diligently and promptly haha).
Compare the experience of a young (30s) woman who presented repeatedly at the GP with a lump on her arm. 'Go away, it's a ganglion', 'Go away, it's a ganglion', 'Go away, it's a ganglion', 'Oops, no, it's cancer, we'll have your hand and half your forearm off, ta dear '. She died a couple of years later, minus the entirety of the arm. But that was a woman taking an actual problem to medics, as opposed to one complying with a medical diktat for the good of silly women with their squishy, treacherous, dirty sexual organs. With an added touch of slut-shaming: nuns famously don't get it, after all. 😠

[quote FatAnneTheDealer]@Whiskyinajar it sounds like you are a post menopausal woman. I had a similar experience with a smear test a few years ago. The technician simply couldn't do it. They prescribed Vagifem, which is a topical hormone treatment (a "pill" inserted into the vagina) for two weeks.

It made the test possible for me, but also made a huge difference to my general comfort (and later to my post menopausal sex life) so I can wholly recommend it. I saw the nurse afterwards and asked for an ongoing prescription.

However, I have also decided not to have any more smear tests. I have only one sexual partner; I have never had an unusual result; and I am in my late sixties. So no more for me. I think you can refuse whenever you decide these interventions don't help you.[/quote]
You can refuse at any time. It is absolutely not compulsory. I didn't have one for many, many years then had one down to unexpected bleeding during menopause.
My.mum ( elderly) has never had one!
It sounds awful OP.
I am fortunate and feel nothing!