Being “BAME” doesn’t automatically increase your risk of infection and death from C19

[User26272829]

I have a personal interest in this because I’m a black woman. I keep reading that BAME(can’t stand this terminology which basically shoves very different groups into one mass) communities are at higher risk of infection and death from Coronavirus. When you look closer into the available data, there is nothing conclusive to show a link to ethnicity. It’s based on environmental factors such as housing, underlying conditions, deprivation, types of jobs and exposure to the virus/viral load.
I work from home, never use public transport, l’m under 50, fairly fit, don’t have any underlying conditions, don’t live in a deprived area and don’t live in multi generational housing. So how would I be higher risk than a white woman with the same characteristics? So AIBU to think that classing BAME people as higher risk is inaccurate and deeply flawed?

As far as the environmental stuff linked to economics, reporting that as BAME people being more likely to fall seriously ill is essentially reporting a correlation as causative. Because guess what - lots of people who are not BAME live in inadequate housing or multi-generational households, have the wrong accents, aren't taken seriously by medical staff, and all the other problems of being poor.

The implication somehow seems to be that poverty and it's effects aren't that important if it can't be attributed to racism. Anyone who thinks there is not significant classist prejudice against poor whites, or that being poor is invisible to the eye if you are white, is pretty naive.

[quote BelleHathor]We were discussing vitamin D on lipstickalley (an African American forum) early last year. The American covid briefings had noted higher adverse outcomes in cities like Detroit amongst African Americans.
I took emotion out of it and have had my whole extended family on Vitamin C, D and Zinc for nearly a year. The politicisation and framing of the issue instead of a clear campaign to get people to test their levels likely led to death.
www.lipstickalley.com/threads/people-with-low-levels-of-vitamin-d-may-be-more-likely-to-catch-coronavirus-and-die-from-covid-19.3466243/[/quote]
Do you think it would help if rather than a campagin aimed at POC directly they made a broad advert regarding vit D. Or even a campaign that more targets while middle England, as there may be less distrust of something that is seemingly done for white benefit rather than by white authorities for POC?

Do you think it would help if rather than a campagin aimed at POC directly they made a broad advert regarding vit D. Or even a campaign that more targets while middle England, as there may be less distrust of something that is seemingly done for white benefit rather than by white authorities for POC?
Yes,a general campaign would have saved lives and led to less distrust.
I absolutely hate the patronising tone of the current BAME vaccine refusal campaign and the implications that we are more likely to listen to disinformation and need education. Conversely I know that most of the Civil Service responsible do not look like me and are wholly disconnected from ordinary people (see the Home Office advert below). They are worried about being accused of systemic racism by Labour so have over corrected and ended up being offensive (I have heard suggestions of using people like Stormzy to get the message across 😠🤬).
At the end of the day though, ignore the messenger, if vitamin d can help, take it survive then hold the government to account.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=F2bxm1T2izg

@SmokedDuck

As far as the environmental stuff linked to economics, reporting that as BAME people being more likely to fall seriously ill is essentially reporting a correlation as causative. Because guess what - lots of people who are not BAME live in inadequate housing or multi-generational households, have the wrong accents, aren't taken seriously by medical staff, and all the other problems of being poor.

The implication somehow seems to be that poverty and it's effects aren't that important if it can't be attributed to racism. Anyone who thinks there is not significant classist prejudice against poor whites, or that being poor is invisible to the eye if you are white, is pretty naive.

This feels a bit like an odd defensive racism. Nobody has said only black, Asian or minority ethnic people are poor. I think everyone recognises that there are poor white people.

However there are a disproportionate number of non-white people living in poverty, in crowded multi-generational housing and inner city areas. There is a strong evidence base to show that black people have worse health treatment and outcomes than white people in similar circumstances.

Why do you want to dismiss this disadvantage? Why would anyone who cares about an equal society for all, not want to see changes made that address this?

The thing is, COVID 19 is like Russian roulette. For some reason, it makes certain individuals very ill. We don’t know the reason yet, perhaps it’s a particular piece of DNA.

On the one hand you have someone like George Alagiah. He falls in to many risk categories: Male, BAME, age 65, stage 4 cancer, on chemo. And yet he had only a temperature with COVID. On the other hand you have younger people with no risk factors who have died.

None of us have any idea what COVID will do to us if we catch it. There are only statistics, which do indicate that BAME individuals are at higher risk from COVID. We don’t know why, it’s just an indication.

So overall I don’t really understand your question. The statistics do indicate that ethnicity does change risk. Why or whether it’s not true as a stand alone factor, we just don’t know. But the alternative was to ignore those statistics, which if that had happened, I’m pretty sure it would have resulted in rioting.

I totally agree with the post about the major problem with the recommended dosage levels of vitamin D in the UK. I'm not a small child trying to prevent rickets.
400iu per day is the UK recommended dose to be taken in winter. It's half of the recommended dose in the EU and USA - and experts on vitamin D agree that those levels are conservative and inadequate to rectify deficiency. I take 10 times the NHS recommended daily dosage in winter and I suspect I'm still not at optimum level (will take another private test soon).
A government campaign isn't any good if they don't review the dosage recommendation. It would just be more misinformation amplified.
Can someone who consistently defends the NHS/PHE in this matter explain to me why the UK's recommendation is lower than the EU and USA?

As an aside OP (and everyone else) are you taking vitamin D? Growing evidence that this can really make a difference, plus, even if it doesn't make a difference, it won't do any harm. Dark skinned people living in northern latitudes are more likely to have lower levels of VD (as I'm sure you know). This video is long but interesting and shows vitamins may make a significant difference.

[quote Kendodd]As an aside OP (and everyone else) are you taking vitamin D? Growing evidence that this can really make a difference, plus, even if it doesn't make a difference, it won't do any harm. Dark skinned people living in northern latitudes are more likely to have lower levels of VD (as I'm sure you know). This video is long but interesting and shows vitamins may make a significant difference.

[/quote] I’ve been taking VitD for years. Normally take a 1000iu a day pill.

@ekidmxcl Care to explain what you mean by “ But the alternative was to ignore those statistics, which if that had happened, I’m pretty sure it would have resulted in rioting.”?
Exactly who would be rioting?

Normally take a 1000iu a day pill.

I am white. It took a year of supplements, 20,000iu every other day, to get me to 70 nmol/L.

Although granted, my endocrine issues probably affect absorption.

My point being, what is deemed to be safe and what is actually useful seem to be miles apart in doctors’ recommendations. Especially if you’re from a minority community that doesn’t figure in medical calculations.

When I was vit d deficient a few years ago I did a lot of research. My research suggested the best way to up your Vit D is through sun exposure. So, every year in summer and spring months I expose myself to 15 or 20 mins of sun as often as I can. I also take a supplement.

I am very pale and so in theory I should have skin that is very efficient at using the sun to generate Vit D but years of avoiding the sun and wearing sun cream made me very deficient. I have a family history of skin cancer so I have to weigh up the risks.

I understand there is a link between certain cancers and Vit D deficiency and also a link with MS. So lots of reasons to try and ensure your Vit D levels are maintained.

I have read that it's partly due to vitamin d deficiency which lowers the immune system. Everyone in the UK should be taking a supplement between October-March but people with darker skin should take one all year round.

I take 2000 iu every day and I'm white and fair skinned. I was diagnosed as deficient a couple of years ago.

I’m happy with my dose @Unfucked. Don’t think advising everyone to have your very high dose would be a workable solution. There has to be a happy medium. I don’t tend to catch respiratory infections as it is, look after myself, normal BMI, so I’m not too worried. I will be having the vaccine when it’s my turn, but I’m pretty much getting on with my life.

Have you been tested, OP?

I’m not suggesting anyone have my dose (which takes account of my numerous health issues), but I am keen to ensure everyone maintains a protective level of D3, which may be different depending on their ethnicity.

A government campaign isn't any good if they don't review the dosage recommendation. It would just be more misinformation amplified.

This.

@Unfucked

Have you been tested, OP?

I’m not suggesting anyone have my dose (which takes account of my numerous health issues), but I am keen to ensure everyone maintains a protective level of D3, which may be different depending on their ethnicity.

It isn't ethnicity or even skin colour which determines how much vitamin D you need as an individual it is your genetics. This is actually thought to run in families.

Also if you have a high BMI like with some other vitamin supplements e.g. folic acid and medication you will need more as well.

@Unfucked

Although granted, my endocrine issues probably affect absorption.

My point being, what is deemed to be safe and what is actually useful seem to be miles apart in doctors’ recommendations. Especially if you’re from a minority community that doesn’t figure in medical calculations.

One of the GPs at my practice worked with me to work out the level of vitamin D supplementation I needed after the recommendations for someone recovering from severe deficiency didn't work for me. I also get tested at least once annually. This has worked for a decade.

What I've noticed as soon as I point that out to any doctor they immediately shut up and stop telling me that I'm taking too much. However some other white healthcare professionals seem to think they know better...

@DeeCeeCherry

YANBU.

I've not seen a single shred of proof. No concrete evidence. & this society/government has form for scapegoating and gaslighting Black people.

So although I believe of course some of us will get Covid, I do not believe that non-Black people are lower risk.

Given that Black people work on NHS frontline which dramatically increases risk, the way the press & health 'officials' speak you'd think within the past year 1000s of us would've dropped like flies from Covid, and there'd be a massive front line NHS recruitment drive.

& It's not as if they're pulling us off the frontlines to minimise our risk, is it?

Good post but I think it'll just make people rush to read some article/stats-laden piece re-iterating that yes, of course BAME are more at risk.

Some people believe what they read online far more than what they see in the real world. & In the real world, people of all nations catch Covid.

Maybe they're fussing about us having the vaccine and using 'you're more at risk' as persuasion because they're panicking as to who will prop up their health and transport services. So they're trying to instill panic in us. Who knows.

Agree BAME is poor terminology, who on earth came up with that?

This

Someone in the COVID section put up a link to the government’s COVID risk calculator.

It does not calculate the risk of COVID by lumping all BAME (which does include some white groups) together. It has separate calculations for Pakistani people, Chinese people etc.

It also includes your postcode for working out risk. I am four points higher on my current postcode than my previous postcode, so it is taking geographical deprivation into account. It also uses weight an

So while the government may use BAME

Sorry...

So while the government does use BAME to discuss many groups, it isn’t lumping all together clinically or for shielding decisions.