Being “BAME” doesn’t automatically increase your risk of infection and death from C19

[User26272829]

I have a personal interest in this because I’m a black woman. I keep reading that BAME(can’t stand this terminology which basically shoves very different groups into one mass) communities are at higher risk of infection and death from Coronavirus. When you look closer into the available data, there is nothing conclusive to show a link to ethnicity. It’s based on environmental factors such as housing, underlying conditions, deprivation, types of jobs and exposure to the virus/viral load.
I work from home, never use public transport, l’m under 50, fairly fit, don’t have any underlying conditions, don’t live in a deprived area and don’t live in multi generational housing. So how would I be higher risk than a white woman with the same characteristics? So AIBU to think that classing BAME people as higher risk is inaccurate and deeply flawed?

Isn’t it something to do with the receptors that the virus uses to enter the body? Ace-2 receptors or something....men and ethnic minorities tend to have a different amount, which means it’s easier for the virus to infect them.

I dont like the approach of asking people to shield based on data that seems to be missing parts.

If there's a genuine link between ethnicity and Covid risk surely the focus should be reflecting that in the vaccine prioritisation schedule.

It can't be due to ethnicity or this alone because BAME covers all ethnicities, including white.
Those lost from RGT mainly had diabetes, mostly overweight, usually older, but some under 60, and fit and healthy otherwise.
However, it does tend to be the ones with darker olive skin, and brunette as opposed to blond hair and blue eyes.

I'm ashkenazi Jewish and I believe we also have a higher risk, although it's never clear if we are included in BAME (silly term) or not. However, this could also be due in part to housing conditions and deprivation- or it could be genetic..I wish I knew as it would mean I could judge my parents' likely risk.
www.ft.com/content/c5d29294-fdaf-465e-adc9-d4d27b9cbfa9

You need to look at the actual published studies. A good study will have considered this and taken steps to remove these factors so they are comparing like with like. Enough people have been infected that it should be possible to take into account factors such as obesity. Though social factors are harder to take out (eg numbers of people sharing the same house).

Men are apparently affected more than women though and they currently think some people are more genetically disposed to it. I thought it had been proven that people of different ethnic origins are naturally pre-disposed to different conditions and diseases though (not covid related) to the extent that some ethnic groups have additional screening for some diseases so it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that some ethnic groups are affected by covid more than others

[quote SomersetHamlyn]I'm ashkenazi Jewish and I believe we also have a higher risk, although it's never clear if we are included in BAME (silly term) or not. However, this could also be due in part to housing conditions and deprivation- or it could be genetic..I wish I knew as it would mean I could judge my parents' likely risk.
www.ft.com/content/c5d29294-fdaf-465e-adc9-d4d27b9cbfa9[/quote]
I think the high losses among the Jewish population in the first wave could be related to a Jewish festival falling at the worst possible moment when there was maximum community spread. If it’s equally high in the second wave, then obviously that explanation doesn’t hold water

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/updatingethniccontrastsindeathsinvolvingthecoronaviruscovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurring2marchto28july2020#risk-of-death-involving-covid-19-between-ethnic-groups-among-people-living-in-care-homes-in-england

Its due to having darker skin which results in making less vitamin D. Something pretty vital in the fight against covid. Prtricularly those living in colder climates like the UK.

@DeeCeeCherry

I dislike the "obesity" negative undercurrent too. What they're really saying is 'all Black people are fat'. Which of course, we arent.

It's also not quite recognised.
that (a) we aren't a monolith and (b) we know what vitamins are thanks.

Just something patronising and othering about the whole way it's spoken of, as if being healthy is un-natural to us.

If obesity is a risk factor then I definitely wouldn't think that risk solely falls on Black people...look around.

Why would you take offence at the mention of vitamins? The op asked a question, and that could be part of the answer. On average, the darker your skin, the lower your vitamin d levels in the uk, as well as the further north you are, the lower your vitamin d levels too, on average. The inhabitants of the uk are all descended from black people originally, but the strength of the sunlight was so low that paler skin was favoured, and o as lee skinned individuals more likely to survive and reproduce, to such an extent that the entire population changed to white in under 100 generations.

These days we have a better diet, and availability of vitamin d supplements, but even so, many people are deficient, and in particular people with darker skin

I thought it was proven by studies that certain ethnicities are more prone to certain diseases than others, just based on even the smallest of physiological differences, such as the vitamin-D issue mentioned earlier in the thread. (Obviously there's a huge range of people in each ethnicity, as well as overlap among different ethnicities, but we're only talking about statistical trends, here.)

It works both ways. There are diseases and conditions that are more common for "non-BAME" people, too, I'm sure.

It's a very interesting question.

But I'm guessing there must be 'something' because I doubt all the consultants from the BAME community (I know you don't like this word but I cannot think of a better alternative) travelled public transport or lived in multi generational or deprived housing either?

I guess it's fair to say your lifestyle provides you a level of protection though. And it would be interesting to know if a white woman in same circumstance would have lesser risk.

I think the research so far has shown its not purely ethnicity but also down to viral load exposure and health conditions with covid knowing to take a heavy impact also on the kidneys.
A larger percentage of the black community suffer from kidney and renal issues for instance. Also obesity and diebetes plays a factor which Pakistani and Indian ethnicities have a higher risk of by the stats.

It's more lazy reporting with headlines then the actual information behind it but that's what grabs headlines unfortunately.

YANBU!
I too dislike the term BAME. It’s become trendy and frankly condescending. And it’s a catch all term for an extremely diverse collection of people. Ridiculous!

I agree with you - simply being a person who can be categorised as BAME doesn’t mean you personally have a greater risk from covid. But it’s easy (lazy) to lump a huge, diverse group of people together and say that, on average, they have higher risk.

From a letter to the BMJ April last year regarding Vitamin D:
"COVID-19 (Coronavirus) mortality disproportionately impacts BAME (Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic) UK individuals, African Americans, Swedish Somalis,[1] and the institutionalised; particularly care-home residents. COVID-19 severity and mortality, appear related to vitamin D deficiency, [2 -12] helping explain higher COVID-19 mortality rates in BAME and the obese.[13] Obesity is a strong COVID-19 risk factor, as are co-morbidities, including diabetes, cardio-vascular disease; and sedentary lifestyle; all are dependent on mitochondrial functionality (Gnaiger).[14] Fat cells accrete vitamin D.[15] The obese consistently have proportionately lower vitamin D status (serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D]).[16]"
www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1548/rr-6
www.nature.com/articles/s41371-020-00398-z
elemental.medium.com/amp/p/5bf5885d5288
www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/vitamin-d-deficiency-may-raise-risk-of-getting-covid19

@Rowenasemolina

I think the high losses among the Jewish population in the first wave could be related to a Jewish festival falling at the worst possible moment when there was maximum community spread. If it’s equally high in the second wave, then obviously that explanation doesn’t hold water

Undoubtedly some of the Hasidim (ultra orthodox) have been breaking rules and still holding large gatherings.

But the vast majority of non-Hasidic Jews, including my family and friends, have been following the rules and celebrating festivals etc. On Zoom

Which is why I'd really like to know if the higher prevalence is a result of genetics or behaviour.

I've not seen a single shred of proof. No concrete evidence. & this society/government has form for scapegoating and gaslighting Black people.

This is not helpful, is it?

It is a FACT that if you are MALE you are more at risk from covid. No-one starts declaiming that this is sexist and gaslighting and blaming masculinity or any such shit. Are men insulted because they are at higher risk? Men do not have poorer housing etc etc, purely because of their sex, do they? Yet they are at far greater risk than a similar aged woman of ANY ethnicity.

There are differences in risk to different population types, and there are factors at play that need to be investigated so that they can be better targeted with treatment.

It does not serve the BAME community to jump to conclusions in this way, these allegations of gaslighting, ffs. It stifles any movement forward and any attempt to improve the outcome of infection for those who are more vulnerable. It is dangerous.

I think it’s structural racism at play. If you’re BAME, you suffer on many levels. From not being taken as seriously in medical settings to ending up in lower paid jobs where you can’t self isolate without losing your job.

It is a FACT that if you are MALE you are more at risk from covid. No-one starts declaiming that this is sexist and gaslighting and blaming masculinity or any such shit. Are men insulted because they are at higher risk?

Men and women do not have the same physiology. So there’s a clear biological difference at play.

@Iggly

It is a FACT that if you are MALE you are more at risk from covid. No-one starts declaiming that this is sexist and gaslighting and blaming masculinity or any such shit. Are men insulted because they are at higher risk?

Men and women do not have the same physiology. So there’s a clear biological difference at play.

A 'clear' biological difference?

What is that difference exactly that makes men more vulnerable to covid infection?

What is the difference that makes some racial groups more at risk?

What are the differences between the way the virus behaves in people of different blood groups? In people of different BMIs? In people of different ages?

Is only the BAME question the one that is not possibly real but only 'cos 'structural racism'?

How DARE you speak for the health of all the different people who come under the non-white umbrella?

It is a good job that medics and scientists are not impressed by this utter gaslighting.

There may be a vitamin D (lack of) connection.

It won’t apply to them all, but some BAME groups tend to be very covered up and keep out of the sun even when there is any. So if they haven’t been in the habit of taking vitamin D, that could increase their risk.

Is everyone who believes skin colour affects tidk white? Covid being more dangerous to bame seems to only be believed by non bame cultures surely? I've never believed myself to be more at risk due to my skin colour!

I dislike the "obesity" negative undercurrent too. What they're really saying is 'all Black people are fat'. Which of course, we arent Obesity is a risk factor regardless of racial groups besides there are lots of fat white people, the white people around here are undoubtedly much fatter than the black people.
From any TV footage the patients are either old or obese.

@Muskox

Some illnesses (eg sickle cell anaemia) are associated with different risks for different ethnic groups, aren't they? So it's possible that covid could be too?

The Sickle cell one is because areas with malaria naturally select for people with one of the genes for it as it increases survivability.

So you have a group with a genetic predisposition to it.

Don't think there's any relevance to an external disease.

But then white people have had a lot longer in cities with the diseases that entails so maybe there's something to it.

[quote BelleHathor]From a letter to the BMJ April last year regarding Vitamin D:
"COVID-19 (Coronavirus) mortality disproportionately impacts BAME (Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic) UK individuals, African Americans, Swedish Somalis,[1] and the institutionalised; particularly care-home residents. COVID-19 severity and mortality, appear related to vitamin D deficiency, [2 -12] helping explain higher COVID-19 mortality rates in BAME and the obese.[13] Obesity is a strong COVID-19 risk factor, as are co-morbidities, including diabetes, cardio-vascular disease; and sedentary lifestyle; all are dependent on mitochondrial functionality (Gnaiger).[14] Fat cells accrete vitamin D.[15] The obese consistently have proportionately lower vitamin D status (serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D]).[16]"
www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1548/rr-6
www.nature.com/articles/s41371-020-00398-z
elemental.medium.com/amp/p/5bf5885d5288
www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/vitamin-d-deficiency-may-raise-risk-of-getting-covid19[/quote]
Oh that's interesting.

I didn't know excess fat reduced vit D.

I wonder if that contributes to my low mood in winter, always put on a little weight and never see the sun so double vit d drop?