Are we mean to MIL?

[CrispyLeaves]

This is long so i'll try to be as accurate and concise as possible.

In many ways MIL is a very nice person and I'm conflicted over my feelings/ treatment towards her. Since being with her son, my DH, his relationship with her has fractured because I have been shocked at their relationship and have told him I don't think the way she behaves is correct.

The backstory is when I met DH about 15 years ago he was giving MIL a lot of money all the time. I am talking about a thousand a month and he wasn't a huge earner but almost all of his money was given to his mum. He was happy doing this but I believe it's because she manipulated him into it by saying things like she sacrificed so much when he was little etc. She was spending the money on holidays and cars, not essentials. I don't believe a parent should accept this - they should be encouraging their child to save and build their own life surely? She was also working full time as a school secretary so had an income. She has a daughter (my SIL) who lives overseas and I don't think she asks her for money.

Things got bad when she said she was struggling with her debts (about six months into our relationship) and DH sold his property to give her the money and move into rented accommodation himself. I told him I thought this was madness but he said she was going to lose her home and had to do it. She did pay off her debts and the rest went on holidays. He says that she told him she was keeping a large sum for him in her account - he then asked her for this back for a property deposit and she denied saying that and said all the money was gone.

I loved DH and wrestled with this as it made me resent MIL as I saw her as greedy and manipulative, yet she was always very nice to me. It's as if she genuinely believed that's what children should do for their parents. She didn't do any of this for her own parents by the way (sadly both have now passed) but I think a large part of it is that as a female she doesn't believe she should.

DH was furious with MIL as was I - she thinks she never did anything wrong as he offered to do all this- but I believe she manipulated him into it. DH then cut her off financially so stopped giving her money and taking her out and I said if we were to get married it had to stop. She now says he is mean with money, he chose to "help her" and she hasn't done anything wrong. She regularly tells us of how generous her friends sons are and says things like "he won't take a penny off his mum!"

It's not a cultural thing they are born in the UK. She now does strange little things like we will be walking past a coffee shop and she will ask him to buy her things - every time- it's like a power play she always needs him to be buying her something. She also thinks I am a controlling daughter in law and have cut her off cruelly. AIBU to say we can no longer give her any money? I resent even buying her a coffee now to be honest. DH now has a load of simmering anger towards her which if we weren't together probably wouldn't be there as I'm the one who pointed out that it was wrong - so he doesn't want to give her any more money but sometimes he will soften and say he feels sorry for her.

I would go LC. If you do end up taking her anywhere it would depend on where as to if I would ‘treat’ her, and expectations would be set before I go

If she was really at rockbbottom I may pay some bills direct, but no wa would I be giving her money to spend as she wishes

It's as if she genuinely believed that's what children should do for their parents.

And you genuinely believe the opposite (as do I for that matter) but it doesn’t mean either side is right or wrong.

I wouldn’t give or lend her anymore money but I would also question if she has something else going on eg. spending addiction, gambling etc.

Gosh, I can completely see why your husband has become resentful, this feels like years of control and manipulation that has built up - it’ll be difficult to undo this emotional damage that’s been caused to your husband. Echo the other poster’s about him seeking counselling.

He sold his house to pay her debts, which she did & then she also had a holiday with his money rather than give ba

And he still sees her & speaks to her?

Baffling!

Tell your dh to add up what he has given MIL... I suspect it will make stark reading for him. he can then tell her to bugger off

Well, you have a choice.

(a) keep giving her a significant sum of money each month.
(b) pay the occasional bill.
(c) don't give her any money but buy Occasion presents and pay for coffee or meal out every now and again, as other people might.
(d) don't give her any money and don't buy her anything.
(e) tell her you've spent so much on her you need her to pay for treats.
(f) ask for the money back, paid in instalments.
(g) go no contact.

She won't be happy with anything after (a).

I'd be inclined to pick (c) - draw a line under what's happened and attempt to behave like "normal" people; then when she complains, explicitly refer to the possibility of (e) and vaguely hint at (f).

Oh, and when she says "he won't take a penny off his mum!" burst out laughing and say something like "if only!"

If she was asking for stuff I’d say ‘take it out if the house proceeds you kept!’ If she hints at wanting a coffee I’d say ‘oh since you are offering that would be nice, get me a latte pease!’ Make it clear she will be i paying. I also have a heaping mil and have boundaries in place. She decided we should buy her shopping every week (she spends £60 buying crap and face creams how she goes through a full face cream each week I don’t know). DH laughed and said ‘wow if I earned enough to do that I’d be delighted!’ We have a mortgage (she doesn’t) and run a car she sees as a free taxi.

I would start talking about a repayment plan, and of course talk about it is if you genuinely believe this is what she is obligated to do
Obviously she won't but it might be amusing 🤷🏼‍♀️

wow if I earned enough to do that I’d be delighted!
Bravo👏well played that man👏

YANBU

She sounds like an utter bitch.

Honestly, I'd be on the phone to a solicitor about transfer of the house into partly his name as he's paid for some of it - you say he has a sister, anyone else. At least he'll get some back in the will, hopefully, when she does, but goodness talk about manipulative and destructive! I'd withhold all things til she sorted the finances in favour of your DH

I would get her to sign a repayment plan, then go NC and if she doesn't stick to it take her to a smalls claim court.
You reap what you sow.

Well, I give money to my DM each month - it works out as about 20% of my take-home salary. I wouldn't have the salary I have now if my DM hadn't made extraordinary sacrifices, so I don't begrudge it one bit. It's just about making her retirement more comfortable. I'm not sure how much my DB gives our DM each month - I've never asked - but I know he contributes something as well.

If I had a partner, my payments to my DM would come out of 'my' money anyway and wouldn't be a joint expense, so anyone telling me not to give her any money could go and do one.

In the OP's case, it sounds as if the level of payments made exceed what could be her OH's 'share' of monthly income, so it is impacting on her. That's where it's gone too far.

I also don't see how it would ever have been worth selling one house to keep the other home. I imagine it would have made more sense to let DM go bankrupt, and then pay for her rent for a new property? That all sounds a bit odd.

Anyway, my point is, it can be normal (and right) to give money to your parents. But there's definitely a limit.

So she was working full time and being given £1000 a month yet still managed to get so substantially in debt her son had to sell his home to pay it off?

She's either living well beyond her means or has a gambling addiction (or similar).

I would say however your DH was a fool to give her more money than to pay off the debt and expect her to "look after" the rest.

From what you've said from the property money her gave her she paid off the debt then spent money on holidays and hod knows what happened to the rest.

I'm sure he was manipulated into it but selling his home was a poor decision all round.

However it's done and I'm not sure there is anything he can do to address this. He can ask his mother to pay it back or give a share of her house but he can't force her to do that and given her attitude I doubt she would.

Are you being mean? No. I think her behaviour is financially abusive and I'd also resent spending another penny on her.

I think some things are unforgivable and her casual use of her sons money (holidays, cars etc and spending more than paying off the debt) having given up his home is despicable.

Frankly I wouldn't want to speak to her again never mind but her so much as a cup of coffee.

OP, I am just like your husband. My mum always took money from me since I was 20, on a small and big scale (she currently lives in my apartment that I was going to sell to contribute to my mortgage). And she thinks just like your MIL does, like it is expected. And I did offer her money, every time she complained she doesn't have enough because she made me feel I should. She commented how generous her friend's children are, just like your MIL.
It is difficult and I applaud your DH for finally stopping financial contributions, but it takes a lot of mental work to stop feeling guilty and angry at the same time. Keep encouraging him gently, assure he is doing the right thing. I don't know if you have children, but ask him would he consider taking money from his your son and manipulate him into selling their property. His mum is not nice. People might think she is a good person, but as a mother she is crap

This is grabby, selfish and abusive, what a horrible woman. To treat her own child like some form of cash machine.

I’d cut the anger, it’s not healthy. But your husband has to find his balls and say no to her and take ownership of it. You play nicely to her face. As far as she’s concerned it’s your husbands decision and you support him.

As the saying goes, not your circus not your monkeys.

OP, you are right and this is wrong on so many levels.

If he was giving her a thousand a month - he was funding a lifestyle she wanted and couldn't afford. She surely should not have got into any debt with that level of money going to her considering she also works full time?
As for selling the house and giving her the money - he should have had something in writing that put her deeds in his name or something similar.
Do you have children? What would your DH think if your kids had to sell their house to pay your debt off? Would have have a monthly amount of money from his DC? (and actually he didn't have to pay her debts off - she should have had a debt recovery/payment plan and stopped spending money on bloody niceties)
I don't wonder you are both angry with her. If she booked a holiday I would be asking how she can do that when the money is owed to him?

This is awful. Thank god you came along and spoke some sense into him. It’s one thing to willingly help a parent in need but to be manipulated into giving huge sums that are wasted is awful.

To be fair I think your right to cut her off completely. I think anything less than absolute form boundaries will leave her space to wiggling in and be manipulative.

I’d also start putting in place boundaries about talking about money too. Eg if you ask for money or talk about what other people give their parents then I will hang up or you will have to leave my house.

Ps I don’t blame him for being highly angry. He’s probably only just coming to terms with how manipulative his mum was. I’m guessing this wasn’t just about money either but expecting too much emotionally too.

@Iwonder08

OP, I am just like your husband. My mum always took money from me since I was 20, on a small and big scale (she currently lives in my apartment that I was going to sell to contribute to my mortgage). And she thinks just like your MIL does, like it is expected. And I did offer her money, every time she complained she doesn't have enough because she made me feel I should. She commented how generous her friend's children are, just like your MIL. It is difficult and I applaud your DH for finally stopping financial contributions, but it takes a lot of mental work to stop feeling guilty and angry at the same time. Keep encouraging him gently, assure he is doing the right thing. I don't know if you have children, but ask him would he consider taking money from his your son and manipulate him into selling their property. His mum is not nice. People might think she is a good person, but as a mother she is crap

I would be giving her notice to leave.

Thanks everyone I feel like I just need to vent about it.

Someone said about expecting too much emotionally too - absolute yes to this.

I worry that I'm the evil DIL who came along and turned him against his mother as he was happily doing all this before we were together. No he has "seen the light" he is full of anger and resentment towards his mother but obviously still cares for her. I would love him to get some counselling or even talk to a trusted friend to get their opinion so it wasn't just me but he won't tell anyone else what's happened- I think it's a combination of protecting her against judgment and also embarrassment at his decisions.

Even if we were to call her out on all of this she wouldn't think she had done anything wrong she would just say it's right that a son should look after his mother so I don't ever see her apologising or paying anything back.

When she comments how much friends children treat their parents I would say and did they sell their house to fund their lifestyle?
She deserves nothing. He must have been nuts to sell in the first place
Have you managed to buy together or is he still in rented?

@2pinkginsplease

Omg what parent does this?

I’d have put a stop to it too, this is emotional abuse.d personally go NC.

No wonder he is so resentful.

^^ Serious emotional abuse. She’s toxic.

I agree it's abuse. It's been a long road talking to DH about this as it's obviously hugely sensitive and devastating for him as before he met me he adored his mother.

We are in rented.

@CrispyLeaves

Thanks everyone I feel like I just need to vent about it.

Someone said about expecting too much emotionally too - absolute yes to this.

I worry that I'm the evil DIL who came along and turned him against his mother as he was happily doing all this before we were together. No he has "seen the light" he is full of anger and resentment towards his mother but obviously still cares for her. I would love him to get some counselling or even talk to a trusted friend to get their opinion so it wasn't just me but he won't tell anyone else what's happened- I think it's a combination of protecting her against judgment and also embarrassment at his decisions.

Even if we were to call her out on all of this she wouldn't think she had done anything wrong she would just say it's right that a son should look after his mother so I don't ever see her apologising or paying anything back.

He's still in FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) as far as his mother is concerned.

He shouldn't be embarrassed about being manipulated by his mother nor should you feel like the evil DIL.

I'd recommend the book Toxic Parents by Susan Forward for you both to read. I think it would help a lot to re-frame how you feel about MIL and the boundaries you need to adhere to in the future.

The fact you've said that he sometimes "softens" and feels sorry for her is worrying (not that holding onto anger is healthy either).

If I was you I'd be very worried about the prospect of him being put in the same position again - a sob story that she'll lose her home and huge pressure to bail her out again.

You both need to be in a good place mentally to deal with that and whilst therapy would be ideal the book above is a good start point and might allow your DH to come to terms with who his mother is (a manipulative emotionally/financially bully) and move forward in a healthier frame of mind.