to turn down the jab?

[Twistiesandshout]

Another Covid one sorry but am genuinely unsure. I am breastfeeding 10 month old dd. I have the option of booking my jab. Not ready to stop feeding yet due to many reasons.

Official guidance changed in late Jan to say breastfeeding mums can have the jab.

What would you do?
YABU - to turn down jab
YANBU - to turn down jab

The point I'm making is that you can't say any medication is safe categorically. That no evidence of risk doesn't equate to no risk. And that it's disingenuous to suggest that it does.

Nothing in this world is 100% safe, so it is completely irrational to complain that the vaccine cannot be guaranteed to be so. Relative risk is what is important and you seem to be ignoring the point made by others that after 15 million vaccinations in the UK there have been no deaths or serious ill effects attributed to it, whereas out of 4 million covid cases 120,000 are dead and huge numbers are suffering from long-term ill effects.
Which do you think is safer?

@stackemhigh

Please just take the vaccine so I can get my turn.

I'm sure all this navel gazing slows down the process.

It doesn't No one is holding a slot of op. She's eligible, she calls, she gets the next slot. If she doesn't call before Derek calls, Derek gets that slot. First come first serve.

So IF you lived near op then in theory everyone who refuses means they move down the list quicker and get to you sooner

I get that, I booked the jab for my mum. But there does seem to be so many jabs going wasted every day.

@stackemhigh

I get that, I booked the jab for my mum. But there does seem to be so many jabs going wasted every day.

But why? If they have 10 people booked in & get 10 jabs out and 2 are wasted is because people didn't turn up, not people like op not making an appointment

@Marmunia11975

'They've said it's safe. They are very careful with things like that. Last thing they would want would be load of compensation claims in the future.'

Not true - if you read the small print, you can't claim. The companies have written it in.

I personally wouldn't. I will be refusing it when it comes my time.

Well, you can claim. Not as much as usual though:

fullfact.org/health/unlicensed-vaccine-manufacturers-are-immune-some-not-all-civil-liability/

I'm a former biochemist breastfeeding my 11 month old, and my jab is booked for Monday. There's no biological mechanism to pass on any live virus to the little one, and she may also get the benefit of my antibodies through the milk, quite aside from the benefits of her mother not dying or contracting long term disability (long Covid, lung or other organ damage). No one can make you have it, but it seems a total no brainer to me.

One of the big benefits of BF is that the baby, who has almost zero native immune system protection, gets your antibodies to defend against infectious diseases.

Get the jab to protect both you and your baby.

KellyMom talks about proteins indeed in breastmilk pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/791596/

Also, just because small children are least likely to die from Covid, doesn't mean they won't have any I'll effects from the disease at all - we may not see the long term effects in this group for years. Given the last set of vaccines to be developed will be for small children (they're incredibly cautious about medications / trials in children because of the consent issues), the antibodies she gets from your milk may be the only defence she has against Covid for some years.

Not anti vax, my family are fully vaccinated. That said, the swine flu vaccine Pandemrix caused narcolepsy in children in 2009-2010. This is a fact.

www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html

That’s my concern with the covid vaccine. I will have it myself when the time comes but I wouldn’t feel comfortable having my children vaccinated until the vaccine has been around for some time and any risks have been fully identified.

I also find it totally unacceptable that businesses/venues etc etc will demand its employees or customers all get the jab. From a legal perspective this needs thorough review or we risk setting a very worrying precedent!

We also need a thorough review of the risk vs benefit of vaccinating the entire population including fit and healthy younger people. Can’t force people into this without very careful thought.

I also feel voluntary uptake is likely to be significant.

I’d lean towards having the jab, but would ask your GP for advice.

Just to be clear, I am not specifically concerned about narcolepsy being a side effect from any of the covid vaccines, it could of course be anything.

Well even the agitator-in-chief of this thread @WineInTheWillows acknowledges that it a balance of potential risks to benefits so it’s pretty clear cut really. I’m not going to quote the numbers again.

OP I don’t think you ever came back to explain the rationale of your friend/consultant for their view. Wondering if they had anything vaguely scientific to worry about.

@bluebellscorner I read the article in the link, but it showed there was no evidence. Am I missing something? You just have to read more than the first sentence.

Not anti vax, my family are fully vaccinated. That said, the swine flu vaccine Pandemrix caused narcolepsy in children in 2009-2010. This is a fact.

That’s a very poorly worded fact when we’re talking people out of vaccinations because of ‘risk’. There were marginally more cases in Finland with one specific vaccine out of the five (? Maybe four?) available and it affected 1 in 12,000 vaccinated children in the 4-19 age group. And it was reviewed quickly, it was removed quickly and the guidelines were changed. It was also in 2009, twelve years ago.

www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/influenza/pandemic/h1n1_safety_assessing/narcolepsy_statement/en/

I had mine this morning and am breastfeeding DS who is 13 months. There was a doctor available for a consultation re breastfeeding had I wanted it but ive done a lot of my own research and have been following the American trials very closely and feel confident I made the right choice to have it done.

Selfish not to have it. If you get COVID, you might get mild version and be OK, but you might pass it to someone vulnerable who dies

I would think about your child here and now! If you want your child to see you poorly or even worse! (I sound very morbid! Sorry but this is how I made my choice!)

I know lots of people who have had covid (I'm a nurse) some people young and old have only had mild symptoms and have some ongoing health problems including blood pressure problems, stroke etc! (It feels like a lot of my team are falling apart from the long term effects) Other young people I know (no health conditions or increased risk factors) have had covid and ended up really ill and ended up in hospital and again still having follow ups re scarring on their lungs.

What made me make my decision is that if I get covid I don't know if I'll have it mildly or have a large inflammatory response and I'm very unwell as there has been no rhyme or reason why some people have been more affected than others.
I then thought of my little girl and how it would affect her if I become very unwell or even worse! Sorry it's so morbid!!

[quote Pumperthepumper]Not anti vax, my family are fully vaccinated. That said, the swine flu vaccine Pandemrix caused narcolepsy in children in 2009-2010. This is a fact.

That’s a very poorly worded fact when we’re talking people out of vaccinations because of ‘risk’. There were marginally more cases in Finland with one specific vaccine out of the five (? Maybe four?) available and it affected 1 in 12,000 vaccinated children in the 4-19 age group. And it was reviewed quickly, it was removed quickly and the guidelines were changed. It was also in 2009, twelve years ago.

www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/influenza/pandemic/h1n1_safety_assessing/narcolepsy_statement/en/[/quote]
The link you sent says that the risk was four times higher in vaccinated children. The courts in both Sweden and also here in the U.K. have awarded these children damages for their injuries:

www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/09/ministers-lose-fight-to-stop-payouts-in-swine-flu-jab-narcolepsy-cases

From the Swedish BBC equivalent sverigesradio.se/artikel/6430756

As things stand today we simply can’t say that the risk was negligible in the case of the swine flu vaccine. I personally hope that they will be able to disprove that, as I would like to feel fully at ease about getting the vaccine for myself and my children, but I can’t disregard what happened in 2009/2010

I also read that Glaxo themselves now say that science has moved on and that they can show that there is no link between their vaccine and the cases of narcolepsy www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-gsk-vaccine-exclus-idUSKBN2341HMact

And pandemic was not removed quickly in Sweden, about 60% of the population had the jab

Pandemrix not pandemic

Vaccinations I have had whilst pregnant : flu and whooping cough

Vaccinations I’ve had when breastfeeding
-flu
-men b
-men acwy
-mmr

Totally fine after all just a sore arm from men b and I was told it was fine so I assume covid would be the same

@bluebellscorner

And pandemic was not removed quickly in Sweden, about 60% of the population had the jab

The risk was already negligible, so saying it’s four times higher means absolutely nothing when you don’t quote the figures. Sweden also chose to only use that one vaccine, which is why their cases were higher - you’d know this if you read the actual reports into the vaccine instead of the media links. Or you know, more than the first line of anything.

Saying that a tiny number of cases in one vaccine out of several different options twelve years ago would make you think twice about getting vaccinated against Covid is ridiculous. By that logic you must never drive, eat or swim. Yet you say your family are fully vaccinated - were you less worried about Sweden then?

@bluebellscorner

And pandemic was not removed quickly in Sweden, about 60% of the population had the jab

Also, please, please read your own links. The guardian one alone says six million people in Britain and more across Europe got vaccinated for swine flu and there were 60 possible lawsuits on the back of it. Sixty out of six million people in Britain and an unidentified number of millions across Europe.

Thanks for the extra links bluebell. Of course it relates to children being directly vaccinated rather than (young) children being affected via the medium of breast milk of a vaccinated mother, which is clearly very different. I don’t think there is any evidence of this whatsoever for non-live vaccines. Would be interested if there is any evidence to the contrary