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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What do you think about the new organ donation law? (Opt out)

328 replies

Nameitychangity · 15/02/2021 14:15

Not sure if this across the whole NHS but the leaflet received today is from NHS Scotland.
The organ donation law is changing on 26th March, we will now have an 'opt out' system which means that if you do not specifically register yourself as NOT wanting to donate your organs and tissue after death, then the law will allow your body to be used for organ and tissue transplantation.
What do you think? I'm already an organ donor so it doesn't change things for me personally but it does leave me slightly uncomfortable and gives me the feeling that you do not have control over your own body after death, in fact the state 'owns' it unless you specifically make an effort to declare otherwise. Is this right?
Leaflet also states "if you do nothing it will also mean you agree to certain medical tests and procedures that may be carried out before your death as part of the donation process".
What do you think of an 'opt out' system? Is it fair enough that if you don't register that your body can be used after death?
YABU - I'm dead, they can do whatever they want with my body and I'm happy for my organs and tissue to be used
YANBU - the system should remain opt in and 'opt out' systems are not right

OP posts:
DogsSausages · 15/02/2021 16:44

If people opt out of being a donor do they also opt out of receiving a transplant or blood

AlternativePerspective · 15/02/2021 16:45

You think an addiction is the same as refusing to participate in a system and then expecting to make use of that system? I thoroughly disagree. the point though is that your addiction is highly likely to mean you will need hospital treatment at some point.

You are highly unlikely to ever be in a position to donate your organs. The criteria for organ donation are very specific. You have to be on life support, be declared brain dead, you remain on that life support until you are taken to theatre for your organs to be removed (I don’t like the term harvested).

And addicts don’t start out as addicts. The warnings on cigarette packets are very clear. If you start smoking you do so by choice. You don’t have that first puff and bingo, you’re addicted to smoking. In fact most people I know who are smokers say they hated the taste when they first tried a cigarette, but they just kept on going until they became addicted. So no. I don’t have much sympathy for that and I don’t think the NHS should pick up the pieces.

But that wasn’t my point, my point was that if you start making demands on one behaviour then do you do so with all of them? And most people would agree that you wouldn’t. So if the NHS would treat a smoker for lung cancer then there’s no reason why they shouldn’t treat a patient in organ failure.

Think about what that actually means, it means someone saying to a patient “well, you’re not on the organ donor list, so we’re going to leave you to die.

Should they provide treatment for that patient until they die? Do CPR while they still can? Give a kidney patient dialysis? Or should they just turn off all treatment on the basis the patient wouldn’t have given their organs if they had died in such a way as to be eligible, even though they haven’t died that way and are likely to be able to donate their organs now.

The statement that “if you wouldn’t donate you shouldn’t be allowed to receive” is an emotive response and is not thought through at all.

Clarich007 · 15/02/2021 16:45

Sorry I should have said I am an organ donor, they can take what they like from me after I'm dead.I carry a card and also all my family know my wishes..They had better honour them !!

Jellycatspyjamas · 15/02/2021 16:47

My understanding is you’re opting out of the assumption that you want to donate, I still have a wish to donate organs if suitable, but I want to actively consent to that. Opting out doesn’t mean not donating.

AlternativePerspective · 15/02/2021 16:53

If people opt out of being a donor do they also opt out of receiving a transplant or blood No. And neither should they.

Medical treatment, all medical treatment, is decided on the basis of need, not the basis of one’s disagreement to someone else’s views.

That is a very slippery slope to go down. Let’s say for instance that opting out of organ donation made you ineligible for a transplant in the future, you could expand that exponentially. If you e.g. have IVF on the NHS should you be forced to relinquish any excess embrio’s or eggs to be eligible? You know? If you’re not prepared to give someone else the choice of becoming a parent then you shouldn’t be entitled to treatment which might enable you to become one?

You just can’t put moral judgements on people’s medical need. Not just give to receive, but so many other things.

peak2021 · 15/02/2021 16:56

My opinion is in favour of opt out, providing there is a way that you are asked if you wish to at regular intervals. Perhaps each time you register with a doctor, and at certain defined intervals.

Moonface123 · 15/02/2021 17:22

My husband was an organ donor, l lreceived a letter from local hospital to say there were only 12 people that year that were organ donors, l thought it would be a lot higher.
My husband died very suddenly, l was in shock and even though he had registered as an organ donar there was a lot of form filling to be done asap. It seemed to take ages, we had to go through his whole medical history.
I am not too bothered regarding new system, hopefully it will cut down on being asked what seemed like hundreds of questions, very shortly after having to make heartbreaker decision re life support.

zzizzer · 15/02/2021 17:28

I have opted out and would plan to refuse an organ donation if needed - (so easily said, I know, but something I've discussed with my family because of how I feel about it).

There are two reasons which I am sure will invite criticism here.

First, the thought of a body being kept "alive" and then having these procedures is too nightmarish for me. We just don't know enough about consciousness - genuinely I find it really disturbing.

Second, the utter arrogance of assumed consent, especially when it covers embryos, is just unbelievable. It should be opt-in.

The idea that I should be asked at regular intervals to reconsider is also inappropriate.

SimplyGrateful · 15/02/2021 17:33

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

If it was up to me you wouldn't be able to opt out at all. Bodily autonomy ends when you die, and preserving a corpse while actual living people die is barbaric.
Well, I have opted out. I have had a form of breast cancer which has a tendency to reappear and spread in other parts of the body. Happily, it would appear that I’m fine at the moment, but it is something that can just reappear without warning. I wouldn’t want anyone to have any part of me!

It was brought to my attention when I applied for a new driving licence and I had to opt out. Unfortunately, there isn’t anyway to explain on the form why I was opting out.

PurpleDaisies · 15/02/2021 17:38

@SimplyGrateful that would be asked about during any donation process. It might exclude you from being a donor at that point-you wouldn’t have to bear any responsibility for accidentally passing your cancer on.

There’s also absolutely no need to explain your reason for opting out. It’s a perfectly valid decision to make.

BluebellsGreenbells · 15/02/2021 17:50

The statement that “if you wouldn’t donate you shouldn’t be allowed to receive” is an emotive response and is not thought through at all

Not at all, one person is dead, the other person or persons are very much alive in need of a spare part. It’s ridiculous to think you are somehow giving up your life for others when your life has already ended.

And ‘the government’ aren harvesting your organs, the doctors are helping others get well and be their for their families - that’s emotive

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 15/02/2021 18:12

@DogsSausages

If people opt out of being a donor do they also opt out of receiving a transplant or blood
I very much disagree with this point, it's absolutely petty and churlish. I don't want to receive any organ at any point - I'm absolutely fine with being a donor myself.

I'm glad we don't operate on a 'give to receive' basis, that's draconian.

rawalpindithelabrador · 15/02/2021 18:18

@DogsSausages

If people opt out of being a donor do they also opt out of receiving a transplant or blood
Strawman argument: you don't have to be dead to give blood. Hmm
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 15/02/2021 18:19

@DinosaurDigestive

That is also one of my concerns - eggs and obviously the womb as I have mentioned in previous post.

Also agree about the treatment of females by many medical professionals as I've had many encounters and have zero confidence.

I'd never really thought of this but, in spite of being a fervent proponent of organ donation, I'd be absolutely again my reproductive organs being planted in a person with XY chromosomes. Any person can have anything else but any procedure that would seek to undermine women can't be countenanced in my book.

I'm 52, I reckon I will be going through menopause soon (I do hope so anyway) and that will be a moot point but I wouldn't want to see it become the 'norm' or an expectation of female donors.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 15/02/2021 18:19

*against

TheLaughingGenome · 15/02/2021 18:25

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe, yes, I would have made that an explicit exception (and my family know this this), prior to my hysterectomy.

Research for women's health = fine.

Research for raging gynophones = No.

HackAttack · 15/02/2021 18:29

Excellent policy change, 100% behind it

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 15/02/2021 18:29

[quote TheLaughingGenome]@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe, yes, I would have made that an explicit exception (and my family know this this), prior to my hysterectomy.

Research for women's health = fine.

Research for raging gynophones = No.[/quote]
Couldn't agree with you more - I'll be doing the same. I think women should really think about this because it's a stealth thing that has the power to grow ridiculous wings.

SadderThanEeyore · 15/02/2021 18:29

People are complacent. This places the onus on them if they feel strongly, much better idea.

rawalpindithelabrador · 15/02/2021 18:30

Really glad some of you gung-ho draconian wannabe dictators aren't making the rules.

If it was up to me you wouldn't be able to opt out at all. Bodily autonomy ends when you die, and preserving a corpse while actual living people die is barbaric.

There's a very good reason it extends beyond death, your body can then not be sold as a cadaver, the government or anyone else take possession of your body or your loved one's and dictate what will be done with it, why people can't do what they please with a corpse (let your imagination run wild there).

FFS some people are really a few brick shy of a load when it comes to competitive virtue signalling.

FixTheBone · 15/02/2021 18:38

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Opt out is awful.

Organ donation is a gift, not a right.

Having CHOSEN to donate my sons organs, the thought of a family going through that without having the choice is horrific.

The state doesn't control my body when I die, my family have the final say. I hope they choose to donate, if possible, if they can't face it, it shouldn't be forced on them they are the ones who have to live with it.

Except legally they do, technically 'the crown' has absolute legal jurisdiction over your body.

Organ donation laws always have been weird, there's no other situation where family members can overrule the competent decision of an adult with regards to medical procedures (not withstanding they usually occur when the person is still alive)...

The guidelines and practices for organ donation are to consult with and respect the wishes of the family, but as far as I understand it, its not an absolute legal requirement.

Stripesnomore · 15/02/2021 18:44

Presumably the reason the state doesn’t push its powers over our bodies to its very limits is because it knows it would create a massive public backlash.

Crankley · 15/02/2021 18:47

I carried a donor card from when they were first issued but voted opt out on principle and totally disagree with presumed consent.

However, my family know that I would be happy to donate my organs come the time.

TartanLassie · 15/02/2021 18:57

I opted out immediately in England when it was introduced. For reasons mentioned on this thread. HOWEVER I have told my kids that I actually do want to donate my organs in certain situations which they are aware of.

sammylady37 · 15/02/2021 19:01

I’m based in the ROI where we have an opt-in system but the NOK can override this. I am strongly in favour of an opt-out system, as that gives an option to those who feel strongly on the issue, and removes the chance of people being too complacent to opt-in, which I think is a big thing at the moment.

However, I feel really strongly that family should not have the right to override the expressed wishes of the deceased, just as how they could not override my decisions about my health and body in life. I feel similarly about people challenging wills when there is no question of lack of capacity but just a case that the beneficiaries or potential beneficiaries think the will is unfair.

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