What do you think about the new organ donation law? (Opt out)

[Nameitychangity]

Not sure if this across the whole NHS but the leaflet received today is from NHS Scotland.
The organ donation law is changing on 26th March, we will now have an 'opt out' system which means that if you do not specifically register yourself as NOT wanting to donate your organs and tissue after death, then the law will allow your body to be used for organ and tissue transplantation.
What do you think? I'm already an organ donor so it doesn't change things for me personally but it does leave me slightly uncomfortable and gives me the feeling that you do not have control over your own body after death, in fact the state 'owns' it unless you specifically make an effort to declare otherwise. Is this right?
Leaflet also states "if you do nothing it will also mean you agree to certain medical tests and procedures that may be carried out before your death as part of the donation process".
What do you think of an 'opt out' system? Is it fair enough that if you don't register that your body can be used after death?
YABU - I'm dead, they can do whatever they want with my body and I'm happy for my organs and tissue to be used
YANBU - the system should remain opt in and 'opt out' systems are not right

@SheGonBringThatAttitudeHome2

gives me the feeling that you do not have control over your own body after death..

This doesn't make any sense because, as you've just told us, when you are still alive you can decide whether or not to opt in or opt out.

That is control. Over your body. After death.

I guess my uneasy feeling comes from the fact that the DEFAULT status is now that the state controls your body after death. Yes I know you can 'opt out' during your lifetime, but you and I know that a lot of people wont either because they don't know about the system, or just don't do it for another reason. YES I also know if you feel that strongly about it that you would opt out, but I'm not sure the 'default' should be that your body becomes spare parts to be used. As I've already said I'm an organ donor but it has made me think about what rights we have over our bodies when we die, about how other people can over -rule wishes etc. It raises a lot of interesting questions and I just wanted to see what other people thought about it. Do you really think people shouldn't receive organs if they themselves have opted out? Interesting, I've never considered that. What about people who intentionally or otherwise destroy a body part through an avoidable lifestyle (alcoholics/smokers/drug addicts etc). Should they also be excluded?

I'm uncomfortable with it despite being on the register since I was 17. Not sure why, both dh and I ticked the box quite happily when we applied for driving licences and we'd both respect each others wishes.

These threads never go well.

TBH, so much is being made of the law changing that in fact the most fundamental point is being missed, and that is that it is important to have the conversation with your family as to your wishes in the event of your untimely death.

your next of kin still have the final say on both counts, and next of kin can and do override peoples’ wishes. However there is strong evidence that if the next of kin are aware of your wishes before your death they are more likely to agree to donation of your organs.

Opt out is really a sticking plaster, and there is evidence that it has very little effect on the rate of organ donations, in fact there is evidence that organ donations drop as a result. In countries such as Spain where there is a higher rate of organ donations, that has been attributed to the increased awareness and communication with families by the transplant coordination staff at the time the decision needs to be made. Spain actually went into opt-out in the 1970’s, it’s only very recently that their transplant rates have increased.

I need a heart transplant. In fact I have an appointment at the transplant clinic this week to see whether I am still stable enough not to have to go on to the list yet. But there will come a time when I’m not. I have found the idea of waiting for someone to die so that I can live one day incredibly difficult to come to terms with. If I thought that people were going to have their organs removed against their potential wishes I would think very carefully about whether I wanted to be a part of that. In life we have bodily autonomy, we should be entitled to that in death as well.

Many people will agree that next of kin should have the right to override someone’s wish not to donate, or to simply say yes to donation if they were unaware of that person’s wishes. If you believe that, then you have to also support the opposite in that next of kin shouldn’t be able to override someone’s decision not to donate their organs.

And to pre-empt the posts which will say “if you refuse to donate your organs you shouldn’t be allowed to receive an organ,” fortunately medicine doesn’t work like that. While I think that when you are told you need a transplant there is thought to the person who will have made that decision to donate their organs, in general chat, down the pub, etc it’s not something people think about on a conscious level, because most people don’t think that they will ever have to put that thought into practice. And in truth, they likely won’t. Only 1 in 100 deaths is someone who will be eligible to be an organ donor, and even if they die in such a way that their organs could be donated, many of those organs will be considered to be ineligible for numerous reasons, health complications the person was unaware of/previous lifestyle e.g. if you drink a fair amount there’s a good chance your liver won’t be able to be donated because it won’t be as healthy as it needs to be, and the list goes on.

You are far more likely to need an organ than you are to be in a position to receive one, so the question of whether you would donate your organs is in truth only a hypothetical one for the most part.

Relatives should not have the ability to override a deceased body's wishes. That's ridiculous. Bodies will decompose. We all turn back into the earth.

Relatives should not have the ability to override a deceased body's wishes.

Even though they’re the ones still alive? Can a “deceased body” still have “wishes”?

I think you have a responsibility to make it clear to your relatives what you want but ultimately when you’re dead, it’s up to them to choose to respect them or not.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Opt out is awful.

Organ donation is a gift, not a right.

Having CHOSEN to donate my sons organs, the thought of a family going through that without having the choice is horrific.

The state doesn't control my body when I die, my family have the final say. I hope they choose to donate, if possible, if they can't face it, it shouldn't be forced on them they are the ones who have to live with it.

The family still has the final say and nothing will be forced on them. In fact, the family can refuse the person's wish to donate.

A very dear friend of mine's 9 year old DD saved 4 lives because they were brave enough to donate her organs. She lives on in 4 people, she gave them health, life and happiness even in death. I think opt out is so important, so many lives will be saved.

I do think if you opt out for moral reasons, you shouldn't be able to receive transplants either. I think if you drink you shouldn’t be entitled to treatment for heart/liver issues on the nhs. After all, you selfishly drank.

Similarly if you smoke and you contract lung cancer you shouldn’t be entitled to treatment on the NHS because you smoked after all.

No? Then why should you not be allowed to receive a transplant based around your thoughts on something i.e. the ability to donate your organs, which is never likely to happen?

I think in law your dead body does not ‘belong’ to anyone. Not your NoK or relatives or any one at all. And in practice it’s not a licence to ‘harvest’ organs against the wishes of the family. It’s a default ‘starting point’ for what are very difficult conversations and management in certain medical situations.

The opt out system is needed because the opt in system didn't work. Too many people couldn't be arsed to make a choice and tick a box. Everybody needs to make a choice, and if you don't then the choice is made for you. First that choice was not donating, and now it is. The only difference is that this saves lives whereas before it didn't.

I think it’s great and actually had an argument with ex SIL years ago when it came in in Wales as she took it on herself to opt out DH and I! (Against their religion).

Only thing is I have asked that some organs not be taken, womb and face really. I don’t want to be an experiment to make a baby for a man.

Why burn perfectly good organs if they can save a life?

@AlternativePerspective Thank you for such a great post from your side of the situation. I hope you do as well as possible.

I agree that having open conversations is the way forward. The fact that newly bereaved families can override the careful decisions of their deceased loved one is appalling and is the factor in this that really requires unpicking more carefully. I wonder if many go on To regret their decision?

This isn't new!!! I think it's amazing

@Cherrysoup

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

You would force a family who had lost a child to donate organs? Surely that needs a new term. It would be organ donation under those circumstances. It would be organ seizure.

My organs are of no use to me if I'm dead, they can take what they want.

The opt out system is needed because the opt in system didn't work. Too many people couldn't be arsed to make a choice and tick a box. Everybody needs to make a choice, and if you don't then the choice is made for you. First that choice was not donating, and now it is. The only difference is that this saves lives whereas before it didn't. you’re wrong.

It is always your next of kin who get to make the choice, regardless of whether you’re on the donor register or not. Opt out makes 0 difference to that fact, and there is plenty of evidence that opt-out makes absolutely no difference to the amount of organ donations given.

But communication with family does. So often someone is declared brain dead and when the next of kin are asked whether they knew that person’s wishes they say they don’t know, and so they’re put in a position where they are thinking about something they hadn’t even considered before all this happened, and that decision has to be made at an emotionally charged time for them. If the family are aware of the wishes of the deceased then they can acknowledge that they had had the discussion and this was what would have wanted.

Around 48% of relatives who are unaware of someone’s wishes to donate refuse donation. That number more than halves if they are aware of their loved one’s wishes.

Communication is key. Not just a declaration that “I haven’t opted out so I don’t need to do anything, they’ll just take my organs.” They won’t. They’ll still ask your family, and your family can (and in many instances do) say no.

I also don't feel comfortable with some organs being taken. I know that is likely going to sound ridiculous to most, but it is how I feel.

Like upabove, I don't like the idea of face etc being removed. Also anything to do with the eyes. However I do understand how important it is for some people to have these items donated and received by them. So I do feel conflicted.

I know that a lot of my organs won't be fit for anyone else - medical issues not caused by alcohol or smoking as I know that can be naturally assumed - as there is damage there.

Some people feel the eyes are important for the afterlife for their beliefs also. I also don't like the thought of womb or any of those parts being removed but again, I can't see them thinking mine are an acceptable standard due to damage there also.

I also have the thought of lying there with people cutting and removing organs from my body which I find very hard to deal with. I know I would be dead so obviously on that hand I'm not bothered at all but it is more the thought of that being done to my body. I have PTSD due to certain things so that could be part of that feeling and thoughts

100% for this move. I have been since I was 12 when my father needed a transplant. I feel so so strongly on organ donation. I cant see a single sensible reason not to donate if you/your organs are deemed healthy to use.

I have opted out. I only found out about the change due to MN.

I didn’t feel confident that they would leave my eggs and reproductive organs alone, given the history of doctor’s treatment of women.

I do feel responsible for any embryos or children that could potentially be made from my body after death. And we don’t know where medical science is heading.

I may reconsider in the future if I feel more confident about the situation.

I've opted out. It's entirely up to my son's & partner what happens to me when I'm dead. Whatever makes grieving easiest for them (be that donation or burying me intact) is fine by me. I couldn't have coped with my mum being harvested when she died, hence I'm conscious not to make decisions from beyond the grave that will make life harder for those I love.

That is also one of my concerns - eggs and obviously the womb as I have mentioned in previous post.

Also agree about the treatment of females by many medical professionals as I've had many encounters and have zero confidence.

I cannot imagine being asked for donations in a horrible situation where a child is dying. The grief and dilemma must be awful. However, I do think it should be obligatory. Burying or burning viable organs without which somebody will die strikes me as an appalling thing to do. Go and have a read up on what donating someone’s organs actually involves and then come back here and say that you think a grieving parent should be made to say goodbye to their child, and watch them be wheeled away still on life support, so still looking as if they’re alive because someone else has a right to their organs.

I would rather die without a transplant than ever agree to be part of that kind of barbaric regime.

I agree with it, there are plenty of people who are happy for their organs to be used, but too lazy to register, never get round to it, don’t think they need to yet etc etc

This way, if you’re that bothered about them not being used, then the option is there.

I don’t think people realise just how few of us end up being organ donors, it’s pretty important, and I find it hard to swallow that so many people would be against it but would no doubt be the first in the queue should they or a loved one require an organ!