What do you think about the new organ donation law? (Opt out)

[Nameitychangity]

Not sure if this across the whole NHS but the leaflet received today is from NHS Scotland.
The organ donation law is changing on 26th March, we will now have an 'opt out' system which means that if you do not specifically register yourself as NOT wanting to donate your organs and tissue after death, then the law will allow your body to be used for organ and tissue transplantation.
What do you think? I'm already an organ donor so it doesn't change things for me personally but it does leave me slightly uncomfortable and gives me the feeling that you do not have control over your own body after death, in fact the state 'owns' it unless you specifically make an effort to declare otherwise. Is this right?
Leaflet also states "if you do nothing it will also mean you agree to certain medical tests and procedures that may be carried out before your death as part of the donation process".
What do you think of an 'opt out' system? Is it fair enough that if you don't register that your body can be used after death?
YABU - I'm dead, they can do whatever they want with my body and I'm happy for my organs and tissue to be used
YANBU - the system should remain opt in and 'opt out' systems are not right

I've opted out. It's entirely up to my son's & partner what happens to me when I'm dead

That would be the case even if you didn’t opt out though. Have you told them that you’ve opted out so that they can make whatever choice they want?

Why do people in this day and age care about what happens to a small part of them after death

I actually joked recently about if I’d died of something before I got sick and they’d taken one look at my heart and said “oh dear God, we can’t possibly give that to someone else.”

@AlternativePerspective I've made a similar joke after ahem, 'hard living' in my 20s pretty sure they'd open me up and go, 'oh crap, that's fucked , thats no good, holy hell, what happened to THAT!?'

Even though they’re the ones still alive? Can a “deceased body” still have “wishes”?

I think this is actually quite disrespectful. I simply don't understand why you wouldn't, in death, honour your family members wishes. A person's wants and wishes are still valid, even if they are dead.

If I had opted out of organ donation and my family said, no take anything, would you feel differently? What about donation to medical school or a taxidermy museum?

I think the system of opting out is excellent. Once we die, we are no longer here. Our bodies return to its basic elements. I really cannot understand how anyone would basically refuse to help make another person’s life better, or even save it, via donation of their body parts.
It’s ok to say ‘what about the family left behind who dont want my organs to be donated’, the whole point is it’s not their body to make that decision, and if even in death they overrule my decision then they clearly don’t give a damn about my wishes.
@Stripesnomore the only caveat to organ donation would be that I would not consent to my reproductive organs being used, but I’m probably too old for them to be of much use to anyone!!

As far as children under 18 are concerned, the decision to donate should ultimately lie with the parents.

The world is full of people who would expect an organ or blood if needed for them or their family but very few prepared to give. My mum works in organ donation so I've had a card since I was able to.

I think this is an excellent idea. Family wishes will still be respected as they are now.

I wonder what percentage of people have told their families what their views are? If someone has opted out in an Opt In system or vice versa then that's helpful for the deceased's family but I suspect a big proportion haven't got a clue.

I can't imagine what it's like to live needing a transplant so I would donate without question. Once I'm dead, I don't need my body and it would be nice for someone who wasn't as lucky as me to end up with a better quality of life.

Those who don’t wish to donate, how would you feel of your child needed a donor? Would you just accept it or decline? You do know it’s not just a case of saying “your son will need a transplant so we’ll put him on the list now to wait for an organ.”?

If someone is considered to need a transplant there has usually been some level of illness before that stage is reached. But even in the event of sudden illness there are numerous tests to undergo before going on the list is agreed. Because there are factors which mean that someone may not be eligible for a transplant.

Case in point, in 2019 I was seriously ill and there was talk of sending me down to the transplant centre to be put on to the urgent list. For reference, the urgent list is for patients who are going to die imminently without a transplant. However before that could happen I had to undergo a number of tests, one of which is something called a right heart cath test where they insert a probe into your lungs through a neck line and measure the lung pressure. If the pressure is too high then that means a transplant would not be considered because with escalated lung pressure the heart will arrest as soon as the patient is taken off the bypass machine and the heart is connected to the lungs.

On that occasion my pressure was too high, and I was told that I would not be considered for transplant and that my only option was to go home and live out the rest of my life.

Enter my new consultant who put me forward for other tests for procedures which would increase my chances of my pulmonary pressure reducing, increase my quality of life and hopefully make me eligible for a transplant in the future.

Over the past just under 2 years my pressures have come down,my quality of life has increased, but I am still under the transplant centre and I always will be. But now I am in a position that my progress can be monitored carefully, so that if I begin to regress, treatments can be given which will mean it is more likely I will be able to have a transplant. But even then, I will still have to undergo all the tests, including a repeat of the right heart cath test, to check for the likelihood of a successful transplant. And it’s still possible that I may not be eligible, but if I am, then, and only then, will I go on to the list.

And there are numerous factors which can impact on that. Even something as innocuous as having a cold will mean temporary removal from the list Until recovery because transplant equals having to take immunosuppressantsfor the rest of your life, and that is not compatible with recovering from a current infection as well as undergoing serious surgery which you already have a 10% chance of dying from.

I think that if any parent can watch their child go through all that and then turn around and decline a transplant, then that is up to them. However, I suspect that any parent who goes through that in the desperate hope that their child will receive a transplant, is likely to change their view on organ donation during this process anyway. Besides which, as they’re still alive, the thought of them donating their organs is still only a hypothetical, whereas the need for the transplant is real.

I’m very pro organ donation, and I feel that people are welcome to pretty much any part of me that they need when I’m dead! And having cared for people in intensive care and A&E who have died waiting for transplants, there is part of me that feels that if you opt of out donating, you opt out of receiving. It simply isn’t comparable to saying that people who drink or smoke shouldn’t get NHS treatment either. That treatment is often much more widely available.

Organs are a scarce and rationed resource - there simply aren’t enough. By giving a heart to one person, you are not giving it to another who also needs it. So why should you get to have one from society, when you wouldn’t be willing to give one yourself?

The most important thing is education and support. People need to be educated on what organ donation actually involves, and the negative and positive consequences. Relatives need to be supported and given bereavement care. There have been studies (I’ll try and find it) that showed that when interviewed a year after their relatives death, none of the families of donors felt regret about the decision, all said it gave them great comfort after. However in the families that refused organ donation, the majority regretted their decision, and wished they had donated.

I do hope that everyone on this thread has a conversation with their families tonight about this - make your wishes clear. Having had conversations with distraught relatives, knowing that their relative would have wanted would have made things just that little bit easier for them.

I think it's utterly pointless. Your family can override your decision either way, just as they could before. So what difference does it make? None. It's all just posturing.

I got a letter a while ago (England), but they tell you how to opt out if wanted, it takes about a minute or less online.

personally but it does leave me slightly uncomfortable and gives me the feeling that you do not have control over your own body after death, in fact the state 'owns' it unless you specifically make an effort to declare otherwise. Is this right?

It's not really an effort though, it takes 2 mins to go on and opt out, if you didn't want your organs being donated, take those couple of minutes to note that down. Of course you have control over your body - you can opt out!

Personally I think it's a great thing, there's so many people that would happily be organ donors but never bother to 'opt in'. This way, those people can still donate their organs.

I opted out because I have a massive issue with presumed consent - I think consent should always be actively sought, never presumed and I believe this is a dangerous path to go down. I've made it clear to my family that I consent to them donating anything other than my face and my reproductive organs.

Why do people in this day and age care about what happens to a small part of them after death because so many people think of death as something that is going to happen to them.

People fear death, they can’t imagine it, they don’t want to die, and as such they find it inconceivable that they might die sooner than they were hoping, in such a way that their organs could be removed.

I am not keen on an opt out scheme. I think you should have to opt in, but your family should not be able to override your wishes. That's the aspect that annoys me - I have carried a donor card since I was 18 but if my son didn't like the idea he could stop it happening. That's not ok. My body, my choice.

But I would not be keen on being harvested without my explicit consent either.

I totally agree with PP that it is really important to raise this issue with your families and tell them your preference in the event of your death.

DH and I both want whatever useful to be taken and the rest directly cremated (no funeral). Our families also know our wishes and where we want to be scattered as ashes (although DH doesn't care where, so up to me or other where he's scattered)

@Toomanyparsnips

I opted out because I have a massive issue with presumed consent - I think consent should always be actively sought, never presumed and I believe this is a dangerous path to go down. I've made it clear to my family that I consent to them donating anything other than my face and my reproductive organs.

Yes, this is basically how it made me feel. I don't like the idea of presumed consent, or the default position being that you have to opt OUT of something being done to your body. What happens if its just the start of a 'slippery slope' into all organ donation being compulsory? Or is anyone for that too? I know that's going to prompt the "it would never happen" replies but look what's happening in the world right now regarding civil liberties (whether you agree or not - that is another debate!) and tell me if a year ago you would ever have believed THAT would have happened! It's the 'presumed' part I don't like.

I had opted in before the change, but I don't like this presumed consent. I need to get round to doing this but I plan to make it clear that I'm happy to donate anything but my reproductive organs - though reading on this thread about face transplants I think I will remove consent for that too! I didn't realise that was a thing.

@AlternativePerspective

I do think if you opt out for moral reasons, you shouldn't be able to receive transplants either. I think if you drink you shouldn’t be entitled to treatment for heart/liver issues on the nhs. After all, you selfishly drank.

Similarly if you smoke and you contract lung cancer you shouldn’t be entitled to treatment on the NHS because you smoked after all.

No? Then why should you not be allowed to receive a transplant based around your thoughts on something i.e. the ability to donate your organs, which is never likely to happen?

You think an addiction is the same as refusing to participate in a system and then expecting to make use of that system? I thoroughly disagree.

tell me if a year ago you would ever have believed THAT would have happened!

Nothing has happened that anyone couldn’t predict in the event of a global pandemic which has killed over 2 million people even with measures to reduce spread.

Opted out because I also don't like presumed consent. Like other posters, I have told my family what I will allow them to take, but I'm not having the powers that be assume that. Obviously if a loved one needed a donor organ and I matched, I'd do it in a heartbeat. My body, my terms, my consent.

If I am dead I am happy to donate anything that will help others but not so sure I would like to be kept on a ventilator waiting for some poor soul to have to take the decision to turn it off if I was just brain stem dead.

I opted out because I have a massive issue with presumed consent - I think consent should always be actively sought,

That’s my stance too, I’m in favour of organ donation, am on the register but will opt out before March. My body isn’t a resource for the state to harvest, my family know my wishes and I trust them, I’m utterly sick of the Scottish Government trying to control every aspect of our private lives.

I registered as an organ donor. I would like to think that if I die and someone could use my organs then they get the opportunity to do so.

I still strongly think it should be opt-in rather than opt-out.

I have always felt very strongly about organ donation, but especially when my Dad died suddenly at the age of 58. Mum was gently asked about the possibility of donation.She agreed immediately, the ops were performed and he helped 5 patients.I was so proud of Mum.
She said it gave her comfort to know someone else's life had been saved or improved.
I became a blood donor after that and was one for 40 years.
So yes, I agree with the opt out system.Also it seems so unfair that the family still have the last word against the wishes of the deceased.What difference does it make to them ?