Is this racist?

[Sapho47]

I saw this article on lower uptake of the vaccine in bame groups.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/04/black-over-80s-in-england-half-as-likely-to-have-had-covid-vaccine

My reaction to this stood out to me as a bit weird

"Channer urged the government to allow a black-led independent expert taskforce to have oversight of the vaccination process to raise black confidence levels. He also called for urgent research to be conducted on whether the black community would be less hesitant if black experts had oversight."
"We have the expertise. I call on the government to have designated vaccination centres manned by black clinicians,”

If it was the other way around and "we want other white people to give us our vaccine as we don't trust none whites" it would clearly be wrong but reading this i do immediately start making justifications. There has been historical abuse so its right to be mistrustful right?

But then I'd not apply that logic backwards I wouldn't be nodding in agreement with a white person saying they don't trust black people after xyz incident.

So I suppose the iabu is more is it racist to see a quote from an ethnic minority group saying they trust more their own ethnic minority to treat them than a white person, as understandable and acceptable. Whereas a white person wanting a white doctor treating them I'd judge them on it.

@Vixyboo

I am white British. I asked my black African boyfriend his opinion. He said if a clinician speaks on TV and can give good medical justification for the vaccine he will have it. He said for him colour is irrelevant. He said he doesn't need to hear it from a black person, he needs to hear it from someone who explains it in a way that appeals to his logic.

Also, lumping all black people together is madness. Someone like my partner who grew up in West Africa may have quite a different outlook than a black British person.

Let's stop assuming what anyone is thinking and ask them instead.

And that's what the research is partly about. Finding out from black peoples of having a black expert leading the drive to increase vaccination levels would indeed encourage people to go and get vaccinated. I

Let's stop assuming what anyone is thinking and ask them instead

Thats the whole point, isn't it? This is an Internet thread full of speculation and assumption.

The government proposal on the other hand is driven by data not assumption. And the response is to communicate to better inform action.

Snap

@MissyB1
Talking about a situation surely helps to drive improvement. What else should happen? Shut up about our experiences. That hasn’t helped either.

@Savethewhales your defensive Isn't helpful here. I'm an NHS clinician. I treat all my clients equitably. However I am aware of the lower take up of health services by some populations, of the cultural differences between groups that means I will need to adapt my approach to ensure people get the best from what I have to offer. Poor health outcomes for black people is an actual thing. No matter how much you say you treat everyone the same, it doesn't mean it's not so, so doesn't need to be tackled.

I worry that those who want to constantly reiterate the idea that the NHS is racist, and that minority groups shouldn’t trust our healthcare system because it doesn’t care about them, are part of the problem and don’t actually want a solution.

No one has said that the NHS is racist. Why is that always an assumption when minorities say they have experienced poor treatment? Some of us have been treated wrongly by some NHS professionals. Those people do not represent all of the NHS obviously as bad teachers or bad police officers don’t represent all teachers or police officers. I had some horrendous healthcare professionals with my first but I also had some lovely ones at the end who if it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t have known I could report the bad ones (and I did).

Why are you more concerned about how the NHS seemingly looks than the way minorities are treated by some of the professionals working within it?

A lot of abuse - I mean horrific, debilitating, life-changing, experimental abuse has been caused to the Black community historically in the name of 'medical' research so there's grounding for this mistrust. Indeed Black women are 5x more likely TO THIS DAY to die during childbirth than white women so no: This isn't racist.

[quote slashlover]So I suppose the iabu is more is it racist to see a quote from an ethnic minority group saying they trust more their own ethnic minority to treat them than a white person, as understandable and acceptable. Whereas a white person wanting a white doctor treating them I'd judge them on it.

Would it be sexist for a woman to insist on being treated by a woman?

I remember watching an episode of "Last Week Tonight" and though American based, it showed how BAME people can be treated by the medical community.

The one which stuck out was that 25% of second year students believed that black people have thicker skin than whites, there were also statistics indicating that it was also thought that black people feel pain less.

[/quote] No, but apparently it's bigoted to transwomen to say this!!!!!

we want other white people to give us our vaccine as we don't trust none whites" it would clearly be wrong

Just a wild hunch, but historically white people weren't oppressed and enslaved and tortured and colonised by Africans. Just a wile hunch as to why this might be.

@VladmirsPoutine

we want other white people to give us our vaccine as we don't trust none whites" it would clearly be wrong

Just a wild hunch, but historically white people weren't oppressed and enslaved and tortured and colonised by Africans. Just a wile hunch as to why this might be.

And what do you suggest is done now?

No, but apparently it's bigoted to transwomen to say this!!!!!

Seriously? You’re going to bring trans issues into this thread?

@Savethewhales
And to the poster that stated black people recieve inferior care, I find that insulting and disgusting, I care for everyone equally and the same. I don't think that person is black or Asian so they don't deserve my time, so I can only apologise I don't bend over backwards and spend 12 hours of my shift with solely black or Asian patients while leaving everyone else to lie in their own urine and faeces.

Cancer and maternity statistics bear this out BAME suffer when it comes to cancer, black morbidity statistics, both mothers and babies is another place they are overrepresented.

@phoenixrosehere

No, but apparently it's bigoted to transwomen to say this!!!!!

Seriously? You’re going to bring trans issues into this thread?

Yes?

@phoenixrosehere

I worry that those who want to constantly reiterate the idea that the NHS is racist, and that minority groups shouldn’t trust our healthcare system because it doesn’t care about them, are part of the problem and don’t actually want a solution.

No one has said that the NHS is racist. Why is that always an assumption when minorities say they have experienced poor treatment? Some of us have been treated wrongly by some NHS professionals. Those people do not represent all of the NHS obviously as bad teachers or bad police officers don’t represent all teachers or police officers. I had some horrendous healthcare professionals with my first but I also had some lovely ones at the end who if it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t have known I could report the bad ones (and I did).

Why are you more concerned about how the NHS seemingly looks than the way minorities are treated by some of the professionals working within it?

Actually the main concern should be getting as many people as possible vaccinated. And as I stated constantly implying that healthcare professionals are racist and that minority ethnic groups can’t trust them is not likely to help is it? I’m sure lots of people have received less than brilliant care at times from the NHS (myself included). But we have to look at the bigger picture here. It’s in everyone’s best interest to get the vast majority of adults vaccinated- especially the vulnerable groups. I do wonder if some people want to deliberately undermine the vaccination program to suit their own agenda. And no I’m not talking about anyone on this thread.

I don't think it is, if people feel that they can trust the information given by their healthcare providers more if it is a person from their own community, then they will be able to listen and make a properly informed decision about whether they wish to take the vaccine. Informed consent is important.

You have to view this in the historical context of slavery, colonialism, systemic racism, unethical human medical experimentation and invasive procedures done without consent. Let alone difference s in treatment received today.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.sehd.scot.nhs.uk/scotorgrev/documents/project%2520sunshine%2520%2520slippery%2520slope.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjwjuza--7uAhUEsXEKHV-9AqEQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3s6cFPWY0suLUsvshKEkO5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Operation Sunshine and human experiments on foetuses and mother's with radiation

Radiation laced chapattis given to Asian people in Coventry in the 1950's

Tuskegee syphilis experiments

Forced sterilisation of Native American Women

@DeeCeeCherry Couldn't agree more. Thank you.

And as I stated constantly implying that healthcare professionals are racist and that minority ethnic groups can’t trust them is not likely to help is it?

Nor is downplaying black people’s experiences with some of the medical professionals in the NHS which studies have shown there have been great disparities of treatment. These experiences don’t just go away and are never thought of especially considering the severity of them. They lead to mistrust, mental health issues, not seeking treatment, etc.. And as I also said no one is saying on this thread that they all are racist and minorities shouldn’t trust them.

Vaccinations will be higher for minorities when they have medical professionals that look like them answering their questions and talking them through their concerns and fears. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Listening to people’s fears is absolutely the right thing to do, and I’m all for professionals and leaders from ethnic minority groups talking through fears. My issue is with people who want to encourage and spread those fears (and misinformation).
We all know vaccination is the only way out of this. It’s crucial that we encourage trust in the vaccination program.

@MissyB1

"Actually the main concern should be getting as many people as possible vaccinated. And as I stated constantly implying that healthcare professionals are racist and that minority ethnic groups can’t trust them is not likely to help is it? "
*
It may feel uncomfortable but it's been explained in many posts below why we need to investigate and address the reasons for some people in the black community not accessing vital healthcare services such as vaccinations. It's not as straightforward as in-your-face visible racism. Health inequality is real. We need to try and address it.*

White people probably need to wait for their own representatives until they're a "minority group" so give it 25 years lol.

Hammonds

"I think the article is too simplistic. Every single BAME person would happily go to hospital and be treated by a white person if needed. It’s sad that this is now being politicised in such a way"

Don't go speaking on my behalf 'happily be treated by a white person, have you read the OP?

No it is not racist. Do you think it is sexist for female patients to be able to opt for medical care from female doctors and nurses?

Many women and many black people won't care either way, but there will be a proportion who for whatever reason, possibly due to previous bad experiences, will prefer a female or black person to provide their medical care.

@SnackSizeRaisin

No it is not racist. Do you think it is sexist for female patients to be able to opt for medical care from female doctors and nurses?

Many women and many black people won't care either way, but there will be a proportion who for whatever reason, possibly due to previous bad experiences, will prefer a female or black person to provide their medical care.

Gateway to saying "I'm not a racist BUT most crime is committed by black people even though they're a minority so only give me ze nazi pureblooded doktor" - sorry no.

No No No No x a million, or even 6 million, if that rings ANY bells??

FACTORS like deprivation and systematic racism (which we now know goes right to the top and the Crown) are ignored and that the black doctor had to work three times harder just to even get qualified and is MORE likely to be a victim of crime by another black person get ignored.

And yes actually it is kinda sexist to think a male doctor can't control himself, they're professionals and have seen it all before you know. Our NHS was built on diversity and tolerance.