Is this racist?

[Sapho47]

I saw this article on lower uptake of the vaccine in bame groups.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/04/black-over-80s-in-england-half-as-likely-to-have-had-covid-vaccine

My reaction to this stood out to me as a bit weird

"Channer urged the government to allow a black-led independent expert taskforce to have oversight of the vaccination process to raise black confidence levels. He also called for urgent research to be conducted on whether the black community would be less hesitant if black experts had oversight."
"We have the expertise. I call on the government to have designated vaccination centres manned by black clinicians,”

If it was the other way around and "we want other white people to give us our vaccine as we don't trust none whites" it would clearly be wrong but reading this i do immediately start making justifications. There has been historical abuse so its right to be mistrustful right?

But then I'd not apply that logic backwards I wouldn't be nodding in agreement with a white person saying they don't trust black people after xyz incident.

So I suppose the iabu is more is it racist to see a quote from an ethnic minority group saying they trust more their own ethnic minority to treat them than a white person, as understandable and acceptable. Whereas a white person wanting a white doctor treating them I'd judge them on it.

How is it racist to try to overcome racial inequality?

People in the BAME bracket receive worse healthcare compared to white people. Doctors are still trained on exclusively white skin, it took several doctors to diagnose my eczema (so an extremely common condition) because they only knew what it looked like on white skin. Lots of GPs don’t even know that BMI means a different thing based on your ethnicity.

People who aren’t white are offered less pain relief in hospitals, people who aren’t white and who demand additional treatment are labelled as aggressive. Just look at maternal care for black women in the UK.

Unless you’re the group receiving inferior care you just won’t get it.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@TenaciousOnePointOne
We seem to be in violent agreement then with one another. I do know that was the point the PP was trying to make with example of Sims but I really strongly object to the false bits regarding him as an “inventor” because they seemed to implicitly justify such atrocities.[/quote]
Sorry, I didn’t get that to begin with and read through your last post quickly and missed the nuance. (Facepalm moment).

@DeeCeeCherry

I think given the increased risks posed by Covid to BAME communities, they are being foolish.

Your assumption is foolish.

Why would the government and higher health officials be so very concerned about Black people's health? When they never, ever have been before? That's a key question in people's minds and I don't blame anyone who asks themselves this question (& it IS a topic), because there is every good reason to be wary.

This country doesn't give a shit about Black people. The Windrush scandal, demonising of Black youths, poor hospital care for Black mothers, scapegoating of Black people in general whenever a politician wants to draw attention away from how badly they are doing their job;

In fact Priti Patel is at it right now isn't she? Windrush scandal hasn't even been resolved yet but she's scorning BLM in an attempt to appease her fascist fan club who are complaining she hasn't gotten rid of all the immigrants. This is what she's choosing to do, in the middle of a Pandemic.

She's 'AME' isn't she? But instead of saying something positive about the vaccine, which she is very well placed to do, she is again reminding Black people that her hate of 'Black' is palpable. She speaks for the government, does she not?

Do you really think all of the above isn't noticed?

Politicians say Black people don't trust the vaccine. & Neatly sidestep that they caused Black people to mistrust in the 1st place. So it's their job to gain trust isn't it.

They messed up. & Black people aren't foolish for mistrusting, on that basis.

'Yeah but just take the vaccine' isn't enough.

This. Well said.

@Sapho47
Sorry that I misunderstood your intention. There has been a lot of recent posting on this site with people trying to deny systematic racism. This thread hasn’t gone that way which is a bit of a relief to see.
With regards to medical experimentation on black populations, it is disingenuous to try to argue that these are individual instances with no pattern.The syphillis studies in the States were particularly shocking.
With regards to inequalities in current treatment, I lost a very close family member to medical negligence. We were not listened to at any stage until it was too late. Skin colour was a factor in lack of diagnosis and then urgency of care.
The only point we were listened to was after death. Even at that point one of the reports on file had clearly been written retrospectively. Lucky there was plenty in the records to document the shocking negligence in care.
I hear people talk about conversations with doctors, saying it’s important to be knowledgeable about your own care. It’s painful as there is no awareness that treatment can be so different for others. We tried to have those conversations.
I will take the vaccine but have family members who won’t. I don’t agree but I understand that there are reasons behind the mistrust.

@DeeCeeCherry
Brilliant post

Funny that I work alongside 2 Asian doctors, 3 Indian nurses and a nurse from North Africa, if the black community doesn't want white clinical staff giving them jabs then fair enough but in every Dr's surgery and every ward in a hospital they will find non white clinical staff working alongside with white people. Just an excuse to segregate and cause an even bigger division.

You do know that racism exists among different ethnic minorities. I can tell you from experience that some Asian cultures are racist towards black people too including some in the medical field.

@Nvnvnvk
So sad to see in your post you lost a close family member to medical negligence. I know it happens and more often to we minorities, but hearing your story just really struck home that behind the statistics we post here there are lost lives and grieving families. So sorry.

@TenaciousOnePointOne
I had same face palm moment too. Not to worry!

I have just done a stint as a vaccinator volunteer at our local vaccination hub. Every single healthcare worker there, doctors and nurses, were non-white. Every. Single. One.

Please do not allow facile - I mean facile, because it is just internet keyboarding - racism allegations to get in the way of the ACTUAL IMPORTANT question - what can be done to counteract the murderous misinformation being spread in the BAME/non-white/whatever floats your boat description?

Sorry - I need to explain am not personally a vaccinator, I was an admin volunteer. I take people into their cubicles.

@Vixyboo

I am white British. I asked my black African boyfriend his opinion. He said if a clinician speaks on TV and can give good medical justification for the vaccine he will have it. He said for him colour is irrelevant. He said he doesn't need to hear it from a black person, he needs to hear it from someone who explains it in a way that appeals to his logic.

Also, lumping all black people together is madness. Someone like my partner who grew up in West Africa may have quite a different outlook than a black British person.

Let's stop assuming what anyone is thinking and ask them instead.

Well said

@SimonJT in which case every woman on here should understand it, right?

Women have a very long history of being treated as second class citizens when it comes to health care. Yet they are still strong consumers of it. So whatever the whys and wherefores are, I doubt it's that simple.

@Savethewhales Not speaking for or against the topic but aren't you taking things a little too personally there? That you do all the things you say you do doesn't mean everyone else does. People have different experiences.

@Haffiana

I have just done a stint as a vaccinator volunteer at our local vaccination hub. Every single healthcare worker there, doctors and nurses, were non-white. Every. Single. One.

Please do not allow facile - I mean facile, because it is just internet keyboarding - racism allegations to get in the way of the ACTUAL IMPORTANT question - what can be done to counteract the murderous misinformation being spread in the BAME/non-white/whatever floats your boat description?

But to be fair, the article only talks about looking at whether it would help if black health practitioners had oversight. it is an important question to ask/research. Personally I suspect his suggestion of special vaccination hubs for black people only could back-fire massively - it could easily lead to conspiracy theories that they were segregating for nefarious purposes (obviously not among everyone, but among those who are currently distrustful). But again, thats speculation on my part. I think it is something that should be considered and looked into if enough people think it might help.

*And black people aren't racist towards other ethnic groups? As you quoted that its Asians that's racist towards blacks, and there goes the problem, 1 group can't be racist but everyone else is, according to you! Grow up, honestly.
I've never heard a racist remark from any of the team I work with, they work well together and do what they were trained to do, and that is look after the health of their patients regardless of the colour.

And to the poster that stated black people recieve inferior care, I find that insulting and disgusting, I care for everyone equally and the same. I don't think that person is black or Asian so they don't deserve my time, so I can only apologise I don't bend over backwards and spend 12 hours of my shift with solely black or Asian patients while leaving everyone else to lie in their own urine and faeces.*

I think you are the one that needs to grow up and not put words in my mouth. Please point out where I said black people weren’t racist towards others? I didn’t. I said in my experience that some Asians have been racist towards me in the medical field. I also didn’t say anyone from your team who I have never met as far as I know are racist nor that you are racist. You are taking this way too personal for someone who is going out of their way in seemingly saying black people are trying to causing division because they don’t feel comfortable with non-black staff after continued and historic abuse and negligence towards them in the medical field. Your team may not be part of that, but other medical professionals have.

*cause

@AndPatraWillNeverSayNever

Thank you. I said nothing about their team nor them. It was my personal experience with my first pregnancy and I know other women who had similar issues.

Funny that I work alongside 2 Asian doctors, 3 Indian nurses and a nurse from North Africa, if the black community doesn't want white clinical staff giving them jabs then fair enough

I have never heard that the Black community will accept jabs only if given by Black people.

I know the situation isn't funny but it made me laugh. Ironically. That anyone would actually think the concern about the vaccine is due to the colour and race of the particular individual giving us the vaccine.

You work alongside 'AME' medical staff. You just casually perpetuated a myth about Black people.

Nothing new here

Much of this thread is arrogantly patronising - Let's talk ABOUT Black people but not TO Black people.

Smugly satisfied with silly
assumptions, with an especially nasty "Black people are stupid" undercurrent.

The few posters that do get it are ignored in the echo chamber.

There are people who are part of the solution and those that are whining about the solution.

You, OP, are a whiner. The priority is to get people vaccinated, not mollify the feelings of white people.

there are people who are part of the solution and those that are whining about the solution

To resolve the situation we need to encourage all communities to trust in our NHS professionals and to trust the vaccine. I worry that those who want to constantly reiterate the idea that the NHS is racist, and that minority groups shouldn’t trust our healthcare system because it doesn’t care about them, are part of the problem and don’t actually want a solution.

@MissyB1

there are people who are part of the solution and those that are whining about the solution

To resolve the situation we need to encourage all communities to trust in our NHS professionals and to trust the vaccine. I worry that those who want to constantly reiterate the idea that the NHS is racist, and that minority groups shouldn’t trust our healthcare system because it doesn’t care about them, are part of the problem and don’t actually want a solution.

Or maybe they have experience of such discrimination. One PP posted her experience and a very close friend of mine experienced it and very prematurely lost her mum due to discrimination.

"white people" isn't a homogeneous group though. Most minority groups who regard themselves as white will still have big influencers within their own communities.

It's completely normal behaviour to trust "your own" more than others, especially when you're a minority group.

It's not racist, it's normal human behaviour and the sooner we appreciate it and use it to the advantage of the disadvantaged, the better.

@phoenixrosehere So sorry you went through that