Is anyone really making any actual sacrifices to combat climate change?

[Cam77]

Saw a news article about a well known celebrity who is very outspoken on climate issues having another child, which is of course literally the worst thing you can do in terms of your climate footprint. But anyway it got me thinking: Does anyone make any actual sacrifices/significant life style compromises for climate change? Or do we instead merely big up choices that we would have made for different reasons anyway?

For example, I'm vegetarian and when people ask the reason I'll cite the effect of beef and pork farming on the environment as one reason. But the truth is I wouldn't eat them anyway, as I hate the idea of inflicting suffering on other intelligent mammals. Or sometimes I tell myself not owning a car is me "doing my bit" but the truth is I don't really enjoy driving and don't need a car for work. Anyway, it often seems when you scratch the surface, there are nearly always reasons of immediate self-interest attached.

Of course, people are good at spending a few minutes to sort and separate their rubbish now, and we take more care to turn off lights we're not using. All good. But how many people are really making significant life style compromises for purely altruistic reasons. 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?

I like Amazon's packaging. Apart from the labels and tape it is brown cardboard and paper. It is great compost material!

@Francescaisstressed

Haven't bought one single item of clothing during lockdown - moving away from fast fashion. Not having kids Cancelling my amazon supscription. Eating less meat. Buying meat from local butchers, veg from local stalls and dairy from local milkman. Ensuring that I recycle, give away etc But mainly ensuring I'm not buying rubbish I don't need, stopping wasting food which I use to be awful at, growing some of my own veg and fruit this year. Everyone could do more, and people's hand may be tied for lots of reasons. It's about giving people ideas to help. Ultimately, I'm not having kids. What boggles me is people with children who do the nothing - are you not terrified for their future?

Agree with you on your last point, and it would seem not. There is/was another thread running about Easter boxes which turned partly into a discussion on the general consumerism and wastefulness that goes along with a lot of modern parenting. A lot of the parents on that not only couldn't see the connection between this and making life worse ultimately for their children as grown-ups but some were positively angry in some cases at any suggestion that their children shouldn't have all of the shit that becomes a trend and were actually quite rude in their descriptions of those suggesting even a bit of moderation. We were miserable, kill-joys etc. I cross-referenced to this thread saying that it amazed me that people were making real sacrifices - including not having children themselves - but that some parents couldn't bear to do something as limited as re-think buying every old bit of tat that came along, the kind of stuff that is really only being around in any quantity for about 20 years if that (not coincidentally, coinciding with social media). It was depressing to be honest.

My family is. We are starting a forest garden, use products that are as eco-friendly as possible, try to avoid plastic where possible, our first car will be hybrid (want full electric but not practical), cloth nappies, walking where possible and moving towards self-sufficiency where possible. I doubt we'll ever be truly self-sufficient but increasing it is our main aim. We also moved house significantly to do that. It's a long journey towards it, but feels worth it. Change is always made through a mixture of society, corporations and the individual, so I feel the effort we make is very worth while.

We eat meat once a week.

We recycle diligently.

We drive two electric cars that cost us to fund monthly.

I don't think any of these entail great sacrifice but that doesn't prevent them being helpful.

I didn't drive till I was 30...because of pollution. People treated me like i 3 heads . Same attitude on here to non drivers....that is what we are up against!

I also feel that everyone doing their bit is better than no effort at all.

A lot of the bigger sacrifices cost time and money. If you want to travel the world or even go abroad at all (which is not entirely unresonable) it usually takes a lot longer to travel by boat, or train than flying. I remember when I was a teen a friend went to germany by coach (because it was cheaper, and their parents did not like flying) It took about 3 days to get there, hey had about 3 days there and 3 days in the coach home. It didn't sound enjoyable at all. And whilst the coach was cheaper if they actually wanted a week in Germany it would have cost them 5 or 6 days extra holiday.

If you buy refills of soap, washing powder, etc a lot of the time it costs more than the regular item.Bamboo toothbrushes cost way more then plastic, Multiply that by buying the eco or ethical version of almost everything and you could easily double your grocery bill.

Even down to walking or cycling everywhere. Pre covid there was a campaign to increase station parking in the town that I live. People opposing who incidentally included trades people who used their vans all day for work were insisting people in surrounding villages should walk or cycle instead of driving to the station. If a parent is dropping children at school or nursery and then commuting to work, it is very unlikely to be feasible for them all to cycle from a village 3 miles away and still get to work/school on time.

These threads are always a real laugh. All these sacrifices that are essentially meaningless ... the UK carbon emissions are such a drop in the bucket that it’s literally doesn’t matter what you do. Ffs even lockdowns hardly made an impact.

China produces more carbon emissions in two weeks than the UK in a year. How can you even have hope to overcome that? (You can’t and you shouldn’t impoverish yourselves trying either)

@MangoFeverDream

These threads are always a real laugh. All these sacrifices that are essentially meaningless ... the UK carbon emissions are such a drop in the bucket that it’s literally doesn’t matter what you do. Ffs even lockdowns hardly made an impact.

China produces more carbon emissions in two weeks than the UK in a year. How can you even have hope to overcome that? (You can’t and you shouldn’t impoverish yourselves trying either)

I think that is actually a very low-down thing to say, that you would find people's sincere beliefs and efforts laughable. And I know it's been said a million times before but a large proportion of China's emissions come from making products - much of it unnecessary tat - for the rest of the world. Therefore, our efforts will also ultimately make a difference there too. In any case, taking the broader view outside of climate change, the kind of things described here also have a positive impact otherwise and are are enormous benefit - improved air quality, healthier bodies and minds, less suffering amongst animals, better use of resources, improved soil quality, etc. etc. I actually think that from messaging and marketing point of view, the (over?) focus on climate/change chaos is a missed trick and I would like more of a shift towards thinking of better use of our precious resources, including our own bodies

think soil quality You think having fewer farm animals improves soil quality?

@MangoFeverDream

These threads are always a real laugh. All these sacrifices that are essentially meaningless ... the UK carbon emissions are such a drop in the bucket that it’s literally doesn’t matter what you do. Ffs even lockdowns hardly made an impact.

China produces more carbon emissions in two weeks than the UK in a year. How can you even have hope to overcome that? (You can’t and you shouldn’t impoverish yourselves trying either)

That whole comment is just "I don't want to try so I will assume it is pointless and not feel guilt about not bothering to try".

Think why China's emissions are so high and why people who buy products from China making a choice to buy less might have an impact on that.

@derxa

think soil quality You think having fewer farm animals improves soil quality?

The current industrialised food model does little for soil quality, with many animals spending most of their lives indoors. Animal manure is of course a part of creating good soil fertility, but what would be better for animal welfare, soil health and human health incidentally would be fewer farm animals but treated well and allowed to spend more time outside but not in such quantities that over-grazing, soil poaching etc becomes a problem. Grazing animals and particularly some species and breeds within species can absolutely be a vital part of a living and sustainable eco-system as described in this Project for example burrenprogramme.com/the-programme/. All of this is predicated on consumers willingness to pay a price for meat that reflects all of this. This is a vastly complicated area, I'm not sure if I've answered your question.

I currently use washable nappies.

I don't like it. I find it gross, the washing is a real pain. I come SO close to just quitting and using disposables. My sole reason for doing it is the environmental one.

I think that is actually a very low-down thing to say, that you would find people's sincere beliefs and efforts laughable

I’m not the one saying it’s possible when the math just isn’t on your side. Sincere beliefs won’t change the reality of things.

Think why China's emissions are so high and why people who buy products from China making a choice to buy less might have an impact on that

You do know that the Chinese economy is more driven by domestic consumption rather than exports, don’t you?

The current industrialised food model does little for soil quality, with many animals spending most of their lives indoors. Animal manure is of course a part of creating good soil fertility, but what would be better for animal welfare, soil health and human health incidentally would be fewer farm animals but treated well and allowed to spend more time outside but not in such quantities that over-grazing, soil poaching etc becomes a problem. Grazing animals and particularly some species and breeds within species can absolutely be a vital part of a living and sustainable eco-system as described in this Project for example burrenprogramme.com/the-programme/. All of this is predicated on consumers willingness to pay a price for meat that reflects all of this. This is a vastly complicated area, I'm not sure if I've answered your question.
That was interesting to read about the Burren Programme.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/uk-farmers-reform-subsidies-british-agriculture
English farmers face a period of upheaval and implementation of environmental improvements.
Yes people are going to have to face up to higher food prices. Especially milk. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33777075
My sheep are outside 52 weeks of the year apart from lambing time spreading their valuable manure.

We try:
Electric car
100% Renewable power suppliers
Looking at alt heating systems, insulation etc for home as renovate it (using the most econfriendly materials we can, e.g. reclaimed parquet, green paint, triple glazed windows) and trying to ensure things are reused (e.g. wood, bricks).
Veg box, organic. Buy organic produce where we can. Buy in season, UK and europe grown only. If it is grown overseas in places like kenya or brazil, we don’t buy it.
Entirely vegan household. I am a lifetime veggie, ten years vegan, partner longvterm as well so not really a sacrifice tbh.
Buy bulk as much as possible and store in glass. If buying bottled fizzy water (rare treat, replaces booze when ttc), we only buy it in glass bottles. Always choose products like marmite etc in larger container, glass containers.
We only run full loads on dishwasher and washing machine. Bought the greenest washing machine we could, it weighs the clothes and adds just enough detergent/water. No tumble dryer- use a hanging old style drying rack.
We installed nest controlled thermostats which has reduced electric bills.
We try to buy as much second hand as we can, furniture, clothes, books, kitchen stuff. I am a lawyer and pretty much all my smart work clothes are second hand. Not tights or underwear obv. We wear clothes until they fall apart then use them as rags or recycle them if not suitable. I have jumpers from my teens that I still wear. So does DP. We mend clothes to prolong lifetime before that. We both still look smart (and not too daggy) though, because we do choose carefully and take care of our things.
My DP is handy so he can fix broken things like lamps, radios etc, which helps a bit.
We recycle of course, even collecting all recyclable plastic bags and wrap and take them to the supermarket. Compost all foodwaste. Our bin is about one sack every two weeks for 3 people and two dogs. Sadly i think my council burns a lot of it in a CHPP.
Dogs are rescued streetdogs and only eat white meat dog foods, not red meat. They get rope toys not plastic. Metal bowls. Obv they do create waste. Use compostable poo bags in poo bin 100% (no shit-littering) but havent quite managed to look into composting their poo yet! Pick up litter and other dog’s poo when on walks. Never go to a beach or forest without picking up some litter. My aim is to always where I can make a place better not worse by my presence.
We don’t fly long-haul, I have a one short-haul flight a year max rule but we haven’t done so for years as we like holidaying with our dogs so we drive on our hols in the electric car. I love flying but I just can’t justify it. We have enough money to take multiple flights a year, we just choose not to.
Ttc at the moment. If successful, we will max out at two and raise them to be vegan, environmentally aware etc. Replacements only. Noone in my maternal line is having kids so family overall is shrinking. We both grew up with second hand clothes, toys and books but so will they.
There is probably more. I know we have blindspots (e.g. DP loves tech and has multiple games consoles etc but we do at least try and ensure things are sold on or recycled responsibly). I think the key is that every decision we make, purchases etc, we factor in the environmental cost, and we are lucky that where there is a price trade off, we can afford that. Realise not everyone else can. But in the main, being frugal is often also green.
Is it a sacrifice? Hard to say as this way of thinking is so ingrained. Maybe when it comes to flights or wanting to buy nice new clothes I see in an add. But largely it is just how we live. I think we save money and feel glad to be doing what we can. Noone is perfect but every small thing adds up across the globe. I firmly believe we all have a part to play in that. In our behaviour, our choices and our purchasing decisions.

Oh and reusable sanpro! I love my cosy fleecy pads!

100% Recycled loo roll and kitchen towel.
Phasing out paper products wherever we can.

My sacrifices are all pandemic imposed:

e.g in a normal year I would have flown abroad for a foreign holiday 2-3 times and I would have flown to London and back 6 times for business. We managed to get away on one foreign holiday.

Normally I would do 10-12,000 miles a year in my car and my husband would do 4-5,000 in his. I have done less than 1,000 and my husband has sold his car as we never used it at all.

At the same time though we are using masses more gas and electricity as we've been pretty much stuck in the house for a year.

I would like to return to foreign travel but we probably won't return to being a 2 car family.

Nor hugely. We are hoping to move to a more walkable neighbourhood when we can afford it. We don't fly loads in normal times. I've made some single use swaps at home. We have also chosen not have children so I dont feel particularly pressed to make loads of changes. Sorry o know that's controversial here. But I do see it as a huge reduction in my potential carbon contribution.

I should also say that we only bought a new washing machine because the old one that was over ten years old caught fire!

Oh yeah I'm vegetarian too. With not much dairy although wouldn't claim to be vegan as I like chocolate!

@MsTSwift

We drove on our summer holiday instead of flying it was bloody awful. Drove for days in a heat wave had to overnight at weird hotels. So in order not to fly we were made uncomfortable, spent a fortune and lost days of our holiday. By the end of it the kids and I flew back and dh (green warrior) drove.

Surely this actually just made the carbon footprint worse than it would have been?

I haven't flown this year.

@Cornetttttto

I get where you are coming from but placing pressure on everyday folk instead of the huge, multimillion industries that drive the destruction of the environment is a tad unreasonable. I can, as an individual, not stop deforestation, glacier retreat, or even the fact that arseholes hunt animals. Can I?

I agree. Until massive factories in China stop belching out carbon dioxide by the megatonne, me walking to the post office instead of driving is making absolutely no difference. I spent quite a lot of money on sustainable, eco friendly bathroom products and toys, but I can only buy food in masses of plastic packaging. What difference does it make if I use a bamboo toothbrush, it saves about 50g of plastic per year, when every single person in the country throws away more than that every time they open a punnet of strawberries, a pack of chicken or a bag of rice.

Shops need to be accountable for the plastic in their packaging. Manufacturers need to be accountable for the pollution in their factories. Individuals just can't make those big changes.